Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican

[GLM66]

Did the accident mentioned above, cause George Crowther to change his occupation?

If it did it took him another 5 years to achieve it, because the old house at home was not his pub by 1878 as this little Newspaper clip shows.

[GLM66]

Hi Guys,

I have just had another look at the 1911 Census and it states that during the marriage of  Margaret and William Crowther they had 9 children, this would mean that John the eldest child was to Margaret and not to Hannah Enoch, as we were wondering when we met last summer.

William had one child with Hannah Enoch (George William)
and 9 with Margaret...
John, William, Euphemia, George, Ben, Robert, Hannah, Mary Ann, and Harry .
I hope that this is enough proof as to the true mother of John Crowther.

Best regards

Gary

[telnorm]

Hi Gary, thanks for the info regarding George not being in the pub till after 1878  and also the stuff regarding the smithfield market. I now realise that the park refered to was what we knew as Jews Park and was directly opposite Thomas Greens works.The park stretched from north st. upwards to what was camp rd.
Regarding John. I am still not entirely convinced that Maggie was his mother mainly because of his given ages on the censuses. I know sometimes these are unreliable but his seem consistent. The 1911, 1901 and 1891 give his ages as 26, 16 and 6.  which would suggest a birth year of 1885/6.     Hannah died in Mar 1886 and William married Maggie in Dec 1887. All a bit tight!. You obviously have some info on George William who I do not know anything about. Could you possibly post some info on him?.   thanks again      Regards Terry

[GLM66]

Hi Terry,

George William Enoch was born Dec 23rd 1884 at 10 Stainburn Square and died Dec 4th 1885 at 17 Stainburn Square, there are two entries in the death registers One for a George William Enoch and one for a George William Crowther, so William must have said he was the father, thats why the entry was later changed from Enoch to Crowther.
As for John there is a 15 month gap where he could have been born if he was Hannah Enoch's son, it is strange that it looks like the birth was not registered given that after 1875 there were prosecutions for non registration  of a Birth.

Best regards

Gary

[SlovenianCrowther]

Hello !
I am new to this forum. I am the son of Paul Crowther, Alex who you may met last year at the gathering.

There is an interesting factor about Crowthers in leeds.
It is funy but true. There were 3 Crowthers who lived in Leeds in 1888 that were born in Russia. They were probably of jewish descent. But, i checked on wikipedia that some russian jews have the haplogroup N, like we do, so it is a coincidence.

[GLM66]

Hi Alex,

An interesting item for your first post!

I have two questions, what birth year did the Russian born Crowthers have ?

Also what mtDNA Haplogroup do the Crowthers belong to, is it N1a or N1b.

Best regards
Gary

[SlovenianCrowther]

The Crowthers were born in Russia in 1888 (maybe Ukraine, were most jews came from). Probably if the russian Crowthers came from northern russia(the pomor jews) they probably have haplogrop n1c1 or n2. But, if they came from the Ukraine they would probably have the r1b haplogrop that evolved from the N haplogroup.   + i did a mtDNA test(maternal DNA) but from my mothers side(haplogroup U2, that is quite comon in Russia and in all of europe). I do not now what the mtDNA mark is for the Crowthers, as it is the maternal line.

[SlovenianCrowther]

Benjamin Crowther(b.1795) in Gomersall, Birstall is one of the biggest mysteries. Where did he get married? If he wasnt maried his children would be iligitimate and would have the B marker on their baptism record.
1. We checked all electronic databases and several other e-records, where there is no record of a marriage in this name and surname.
2. We checked the Gretna Green records, and found no other records for this marriage.
3. Me and dad are going to visit the UK in June, this year. We will go to see the Wakefield archive(the oficial-geniuine recs) to see if they didnt transcribe it.
4. If anyone has any other thoughts, please reply to me.

Best Wishes
Alex Crowther

[GLM66]

Hi Alex,

I have  had the time to  look at the 1891 Census entry for the Russian Crowthers, and all is not as it appears!

The entry is for No 25 Mason Street, Leedsthe Census Enumerator seems to have got himself in a bit of a muddle, the correct details are...

Harris Berman    Head
Rosy Berman    Wife
Barnet Berman    Son
Rachel Berman    Dau
Louis Crowther    Lodger
Malkie Frost    Lodger 

The enumerator has crossed over the dito's and continued with the same error for place of Birth, thus making it look like Louis Crowther was from Russia.
The Transcription error  is easy to see if you get the chance to see a copy the actual entry.

So it does not look like any Crowthers were Born in Russia and There isn't any Jewish connection.

Hope the above is of help.

Best regards

Gary.