Any info on Benjamin Ray, Comedian?

[moom]

The father of my great, great uncle John's wife Maria Blanche Ray was the comediam Benjamin Ray.
I have tried to 'Google' him but haven't done very well! Could he have been American & has anyone heard of him?
The information I have is from John & Maria's 1888 marriage certificate.
Any info would be most welcome. Thank you, Janet

[jds1949]

Dear Moom,

I think that I read that the job description of "comedian" did not have its present meaning in the 19th century - then it meant an actor who played "light" roles - i.e. not the "heavy" Shakespearian stuff. So your man may have been a member of a concert party or travelling play group or a local Rep company.

I don't know if that helps, but it might enable you to widen the search.

jds1949

[mosiefish]

Hi Janet,

This may have nothing to do with your Benjamin Ray, but I did find this snippet in the Manchester Times dated Saturday, 16th November, 1889:

STREET OUTRAGE IN LIVERPOOL - A shocking outrage was perpetrated on Friday night in Springfield, Liverpool, a neighbourhood in which several street robberies have recently occurred.  Mr Benjamin Ray, a music-hall artiste, and his wife were proceeding to their residence when a man suddenly emerged from a dark corner and assaulted Mrs. Ray.  Mr Ray tried to defend his wife, when he was at once set upon by the ruffian, who produced a sharp instrument and stabbed Mr. Ray several times in the neck, head, and body.  The injured man was conveyed home and a doctor was called in.  He seemed to improve a little, but subesequently grew much worse, and the doctor was called in a second time.  He was then removed to the Northern Hospital, where he lies in a dangerous condition.  The assailant escaped.

It also appeared in Reynolds Newspaper (London) dated Sunday November, 10th 1889 under the heading "Theatrical Chit Chat" where it said they were going to their lodgings in Springfield Street, Liverpool. 

I can`t find anything else.

Regards,
Mo

[moom]

Thanks Mo, a kind lady named Dorothy has sent me the newspaper article from the Manchester Times dated 16th November 1889. I think it is definitely the same Benjamin Ray that I was inquiring about. As I said to Dorothy, it's a fantastic piece of information. It even made the London newspapers - was the Renald's newspaper a daily or a theatrical publication?
I was wondering if he survived or not, I am now wondering if the hospital records are still around! The Northern has been renamed, but it's still in the same place. I shall have to look into it.
Thank you for your help, it is much appreciated.
Best wishes, Janet

[Barbara.H]

Hi, what an interesting story 
 
This could be a total red herring, but if you put surname "Ray" plus occupation "comedian" into the 1881 census, you get a William Ray, comedian, born West Bromwich around 1859. living in London.

If you chase this William through to 1891, he is living in Chorlton on Medlock, Manchester with his father, Benjamin Ray, who was born 1836 in Shoreditch, London. 

Both described here as "professional"  (professional at what it doesn't say!) but in 1901, William is still in Manchester and is describing himself "comedian and dancer"

Coincidence, or might there be a family of Rays on the stage?

  Barbara

[moom]

Hi Barbara, Mmm, definitely food for thought. It seems too much a coincidence for this to be a red herring.  Benjamin's daughter Maria Blanche Ray was born 1869/70 but don't know where as I only have the 1888 marriage cert with her age on and can find neither her or husband John after this. Her address was down as 7 Cottage Street & his 10 ?Kersley? street, but not the area. The marriage took place in ST. Stephen's Salford.
I don't have a subscription to any census sites at the moment so would be grateful if you could let me have the details of the censuses you have found him on. Thank you so much for your time & trouble.
Best wishes, Janet

[Barbara.H]

OK, here's the 1891 census first, which has Benjamin Ray age 55. Its a big house!

59 Grosvenor St, Chorlton-on-Medlock:

Benjamin Ray, age 55, head, b. London Shoreditch.  Occ 'professional'
Louisa Ray, 53, wife, b. London Southwark
William Ray, 31, son (married) b. West Bromwich Staffs. Occ. 'professional'
Susanah Ray, 33, dau (married) b. London Shoreditch
Albert G Ray, 15, son, b. London Shoreditch, Occ. 'professional'
Henry Ray, son, 8, b. Dunbarton
Louisa Ray, 11, grand-dau, b. London
William Ray, 10, grandson, b. London
Eleanor Ray, 7 g-dau, b. London
Jubilee Ray, 4, g-dau, b. Manchester
Benjamin Ray, 4 months, g-son, b. Manchester
Thomas Taylor, 26, son in law, b. Sheffield, occ. Labourer
Florence Taylor, 22(?) dau, b. Sandgate (?) can't read this line very well
Frederick Eclipse, 26 boarder, b. London. Occ 'professional'
Emily Eclipse, 24, boarder, b. London, Occ. 'professional'
Robert Gorley, 27, married, boarder, b. Cumberland, Occ. clerk
Catherine Gorley, 32, married, b. Scotland, Occ 'professional'

Could not resist looking up others with the wonderful surname 'Eclipse' and found another family in Grape St Manchester, who were actors and singers. So I think these Ray 'professionals' are professional performers. Maybe running a boarding house for actors? Grosvenor St I know vey well from student days (although not in 1891  ), there were several theatres along nearby Oxford Rd. 

As for the addresses on the marriage cert, there is a Cottage St in Salford which is about right for St Stephens. The only Kersley St I can find is in north Manchester, Miles Platting area.

1881 census next!

  Barbara

[Barbara.H]

1881 census for William Ray, comedian: (son of Benjamin?)

9 Camden St, Islington East
William J Ray, head, married, 22, Comedian, b. West Bromwich
Susan E Ray , wife, 22, Florist, b. Ironmonger Row
Louise L Ray, dau, 2, b. Middlesex Islington
William Ray, son, 3 months, b. Middlesex Islington

Ref: RG11, Piece 273, Folio 16, Page 4


Can’t see Benjamin Ray on the 1881 at all! I guess performers were often missed off the census through travelling? Nearest one age-wise is a widower in prison...

But here are Benjamin and William in 1861!

88 St Georges Rd, Southwark
Benjamin Ray, head, 30, Musician, b. Middlesex St Lukes
Louisa Ray, wife, 28, b. Surrey Southwark
Louisa Ray, dau, 5, scholar, b. Surrey southwark
William Ray, son, 3, b. Surrey Southwark
Daniel (or David?) Ray, son, 1, b. Surrey Southwark

However I’ve had no luck so far finding any of them in 1871, including your Maria Blanche Ray. And I've looked on Scotlands People - no sign of the Henry Ray, born Dumbarton, that was on the 1891. 

I’ll have another go later tonight!   What was Maria's married name?

  Barbara

[moom]

Thanks for all your hard work Barbara. I noticed the surname Eclipse straight away as well! Also 'Jubilee Ray' - Our names seem pretty boring compared to some of the names I've come across since delving into ancestry.

Maria Blanch Ray's married name was Buckley, Her husband was John Buckley born 1867 Salford.

Now to confuse matters more, I was searching for Maria (again) on Ancestry & put in Blanch Ray instead of Maria Ray. This is what it produced:

MARIAM Blanch RAY B: 1/4 1872 Liverpool
MIRIAM B Buckley  D: 1924 Chorlton aged 48

MARIAN BLANCH RAY M: 1888 Salford aged 18 (this I know is correct)

The marriage details I have for Maria & John are what I copied from Manchester Central Library files quite a while ago.........so maybe I omitted the n/m off the end!

When I saw the birth date of Mariam in Liverpool, I thought it fits with the article of her father being attacked there. Of course her age on the marriage cert is recorded as 18 & this Marian would have been 16 but she could have lied about her age.

Anyway Barbara, I hope I haven't totally confused you (and if you're not, maybe you can explain it to me!!!)

Thanks again for your help.
Best wishes, Janet