Bryan Carthy drowned 1869 Kingstown:what happened his widow & 4 young children?

[Mrs Dalloway]

On 30 Nov 1869, Bryan Carty, a coal porter, was accidentally drowned while fishing in Kingstown harbour.  According to the inquest report published 2 dec 1869 in the Irish Times, the jury foreman said that immedite consideration was needed for the ' helpless condition of the widow who was left with four small children totally unprovided for..'  This man was my Greatx3 grandfather.

What happened to his family in the immediate years following his death?
His daughter Ann was married to James Daly 9 sept 1873 in St Michans Church St Anne St, North Dublin. 
A witness at this wedding was Mary Carthy (possibly a sister or mother?)  Her address on her marriage cert was :  8 Flynn's Cottages x Gunns.  Is this CrossGuns - as in Phibsborough?  Where is this and in what Parish is it?

By 1901 she was living in Crumlin - giving her age as 46 years on the census. (DOB 1856?)
So, is there any way I can find out where they were living when Bryan Carthy died and what happened to his family when he died?  Any idea where to go from here would be really appreciated .
Thanks,
Clarissabell

[shanew147]

'x Gunns' sounds like Cross Gun's in Phibsborough to me, but I dont see anywhere named Flynn's cottages in the area at the moment. (sometimes cottages are not listed in street directories)

The location seems a slightly unusual address for the bride if she married in Sth Anne street on the other side of the city... maybe that was a temporary address at the time of the marriage and her actual parish was St Michans ?

I am assuming that Bryan's death cert did not mention his residence, so it might be difficult to find out where the family were based in Kingstown/Dun Laoghaire. Were any of their children born in the area between 1864 and 1869 ?


Shane

[Mrs Dalloway]

The marriage cert says, I think, that they were married in St Michans on Saint Anne Street... which I think is a different one from South Anne Street off Grafton St. 
On the 1901 census it says that both she and her husband, James Daly, are from Co Meath.

I dont know ANYTING about Anne's siblings or her mother's name - although there is a Mary Carthy who was witness at Anne's marriage.

I got a typed transcript of the report  from a distant family member -  who may no longer be living... and it says nothing about where he lived.  It just says that his wife says...
'her husband left their dwelling at 5pm after supper with the avowed object of securing work on board one of mr Ted Castle's ships, which was hourly expected with coals.... was sober... and by {7:45 } cries of distress were heard by coastguards. ' 
It is difficult to judge from this if he lived close by the harbour or not...
I am uploading the death cert of Bryan Carthy - I cant make out much of the writing.  Perhaps the death was registered in Rathdown because that is where he died... and not where he lived?? Do you know anything about the procedure of registering accidental deaths?
Michelle

[Mrs Dalloway]

I suppose I could try to find his grave... where were poor people buried in Dublin in 1869...??  WOuld the body have been returned to his wife or would the authorities have taken care of the burial?
I seem to have more questions than answers with this family...

[shanew147]

Births, Marriages and Deaths were registered in the district in which they took place... so Rathdown would fit with Dun Laoghaire.

I dont think he could have live that far away at the time if he was expecting a ship 'within the hour' and walked to the harbour.  That possibly places his home address somewhere within 4 or 5 km of Dun Laoghaire ... so probably South county Dublin or suburbs.

cant help with place of burial.. that would probably depend on where the family lived and if they had a plot.

what I see on the death cert :

Cause of Death : accidentally Drowned by falling into Kingstown Harbour

Informant : Information received from the Coroner of the County of Dublin



Shane

[shanew147]

St. Michan's Church on (Old) Church Street near the Four Courts, would be close to Phibsborough (about 1.5 km) and is in the Civil (CofI) parish of St. Michan

I am not sure what the 'St Mary' reference is on the cert..

The Church would be in the registration district of Dublin North


Shane

[Mrs Dalloway]

 That is really helpful - At least I can place them on the Northside of the city in 1873... but by 30 mar 1876, they are living in Crumlin, south Dublin at the baptism of their son John Daly.

There is a 'witness: Mary Carthy' on the marriage certificate of Anne and James Daly.

The report on the inquest talks about starting up a collection for the widow... and said something about mentioning it in the paper for contributions - it ends by noting, 'the inquest was then terminated, may members of the jury subscribing towards the immediate wants of the bereaved family'.

That sounds like the family were in dire straits... I mean how far would such charitable donations get them?   They were probably destined for the workhouse.  Anne was 14 at this stage by my calculations, so she was probably at an age to start working, but as for the others??

If they were married in St Michan's, were they CoI?

Thanks for taking an interest Shane 

Michelle

[shanew147]

The grooms residence on the marriage cert looks like Crumlin to me.

St. Michan's is CofI..see http://www.dublinchurches.com/

what is the priest/ministers name on the marriage cert ?



Shane

[shanew147]

there is an RC St Michan's ... but cannot remember where it's located at the moment - presumably in the same general area, will check that...



S.