DOWNING - CLOTWORTHY Marriage, abt. 1665

[dukewm]

I am searching for PROOF from Parish Register details of a marriage between HENRY DOWNING and JANE CLOTWORTHY.
I have a date given as 2 JAN 1665 but this is not confirmed.

HENRY was b. 10 MAR 1630 and died 25 SEP 1698 (dates unproven)

JANE CLOTWORTHY (b. abt. 1644 - unproven) - name of father and location of her origins unknown

Any info would be helpful, thanks. 
 

[bedfordshire boy]

What evidence is there that any of these events took place in Cambs? In what places are they alleged to have taken place?

[dukewm]

Hello,

This inquiry is an attempt to connect a "missing link", a.k.a. Henry Downing

All that is known is that :
!.  "George" Downing may have settled in East Hatley, just off the A1198, west of Cambridge, but not until about 1640.
2. Henry Downing married Jane Clotworthy

The "Henry" I am looking for MIGHT have been the brother of this "George" and MAY have married Jane on or about 2 JAN 1665
The birthplace of Henry is unknown
The name of this Henry's father is unproven (may be Emanuel, may be Calybut, or someone else?)
The birthplace of Jane is unknown
The children of Henry and Jane are unproven

I am hoping to "find" this married couple by searching marriage records that could be anywhere in England, but some clues lead to Cambridgeshire, some to London .
Any information on the origins of the Clotworthy family would certainly help as well.

What I'd really like to see is a website with extensive data that doesn't charge for "lookups" (that could be endless) or expensive subscriptions.
If anyone knows a good website, I'd be most grateful.

thanks for your reply and have a good day,

[bedfordshire boy]

Have you tried the IGI at www.familysearch.org, which is the nearest there is to a free, extensive site

East Hatley baptisms and marriages have been extracted onto the IGI.

George and Frances Downing baptised a daughter Lucie on 29 Sept 1665

Frances Downing, father George, married John Cotton at East Hatley on 1 June 1675.

The Downings of East Hatley are very well documented, with Downing Street named after them, so it shouldn’t be too difficult to trace them. Sir George Downing, Bt, purchased the manor of East Hatley in 1661 (see VCH Cambs http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=66740 ). Frances, wife of George, was Frances Howard, daughter of  Sir William Howard of Naworth Castle, Cumberland. Sir George was the elder son and heir of Calybut Downing. Calybut had a younger son, Henry, who is probably the one you’re seeking

But why try to reinvent the wheel? See Stirnet at http://www.stirnet.com/main/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=79&startUrl=http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/dd/downing1.htm for the Downing family. It’s a subscription site but if you’re quick with cut – Control C - and paste you can copy it. Whilst it doesn’t name Henry’s wife it might be significant that one of his great grandchildren was Clotworthy Downing. Is there any doubt that Henry’s son was Col Adam Downing? He’s named as such in Burkes Extinct Baronetcies 2nd Ed 1844.

Calibut Downing left a will – see TNA http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=6&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1  This can be downloaded for £3-50. Hopefully it will name both his sons.

That doesn’t find Henry’s marriage to Jane though. But if it took place in the Commonwealth period 1649-53 it may not have been recorded in a parish register.


David

[dukewm]

Hello David,

Many thanks for your referrals.

Some of what you mentioned I have known and some was suspected.
I'm hoping to document the proof that Henry was the father of Col Adam AND the son of Calbut, and if so, that would close one gap in my line with one missing link remaining regarding the son of Clotworthy, namely William Downing of County Derry, Ireland.

I will check out the sites "straight away".

regards,
Rick

[Robert Stedall]

I have been helping on the Downing family trees and share your frustration with the antecedents of Jane Clotworthy. I do not have a verifiable source for her marriage to Henry Downing on 2 June 1665. There is a portrait of 'Jane Downing' at Downing College Cambridge, which suggests that she was born in c. 1640. She undoubtedly married Henry Downing in England and I have no evidence that she went to Ireland except late in life after Henry's death to live with her son, Colonel Adam Downing, who by then held estates near Bellaghy. She does not seem to be buried at the Downing Mausoleum at St. Tida's, Bellaghy. I have seen a family record that suggests that she was the daughter of Sir John Clotworthy, 1st Viscount Massereene and his wife Margaret Jones, but she does not appear on Clotworthy pedigrees. The 1st Viscount was b. c. 1600 so it is biologically possible, but he lived mainly in Ireland. He did return to England  to become a member of Parliament and was involved in the impeachment of Thomas Wentworth, Earl of Strafford, in 1641. We know that he had a daughter Mary, who married Sir John Skeffington, and Skeffington became the 2nd Viscount Massereene, but there is no record of a second daughter. A second issue is that Massereene was strongly Puritan and the portrait is of a rather decolte lady in the style of Sir Peter Lely (perhaps painted in c. 1665, after her father's death).

I have done a lot of research on the Downing family much of which is well documented and researched (mainly by others). I would be pleased to learn if you solve the problem.  Robert

[dukewm]

I have been helping on the Downing family trees and share your frustration with the antecedents of Jane Clotworthy. I do not have a verifiable source for her marriage to Henry Downing on 2 June 1665. There is a portrait of 'Jane Downing' at Downing College Cambridge, which suggests that she was born in c. 1640. She undoubtedly married Henry Downing in England and I have no evidence that she went to Ireland except late in life after Henry's death to live with her son, Colonel Adam Downing, who by then held estates near Bellaghy. She does not seem to be buried at the Downing Mausoleum at St. Tida's, Bellaghy. I have seen a family record that suggests that she was the daughter of Sir John Clotworthy, 1st Viscount Massereene and his wife Margaret Jones, but she does not appear on Clotworthy pedigrees. The 1st Viscount was b. c. 1600 so it is biologically possible, but he lived mainly in Ireland. He did return to England  to become a member of Parliament and was involved in the impeachment of Thomas Wentworth, Earl of Strafford, in 1641. We know that he had a daughter Mary, who married Sir John Skeffington, and Skeffington became the 2nd Viscount Massereene, but there is no record of a second daughter. A second issue is that Massereene was strongly Puritan and the portrait is of a rather decolte lady in the style of Sir Peter Lely (perhaps painted in c. 1665, after her father's death).

I have done a lot of research on the Downing family much of which is well documented and researched (mainly by others). I would be pleased to learn if you solve the problem.  Robert

Hello Robert,
Thank you so much for reading this RootsChat thread and replying with your insight.
I also have done extensive research on this Downing branch.  If you have deep interest, we need to discuss in further detail and share our data.
There are other descendants working on solving some longstanding mysteries and a private Facebook group that may be a valuable forum for those with interest.

I hope you don't mind, but I just searched for you on Facebook and found 2 Robert Stedall's.  I am guessing you are the author ?  In that light, I decided I should send you a private message containing my email address.  Please look for my message and respond as you see fit.  I will give some details I the message.

kindest regards,
Rick Turner

[Robert Stedall]

Rick, Thanks. I have not found your contact details, but would benefit from chatting to you.  I am also strugling with my inability to link the Norfolk and Suffolk Wingfield families.   

[Robert Stedall]

Sorry I meant Downing families. RoBert