John Harris Jones c1853 (Cenarth / Trelech area)

[sr30765]

My great grandfather married and died as John Harris Jones. I first pick him up on the 1881 census in Blaenau Ffestiniog and can track him through to 1911 and his eventual death and burial in Bethesda Cemetery, Blaenau Ffestiniog in 1936.

It is known that he was born somewhere in Carmarthenshire (Newcastle Emlyn / Cenarth / Trelech area) in about 1853 (+/- a year) but we cannot locate his birth record. He married Sarah Jones in Conway Register Office in 1883 and we then find his father to be David Jones. From elderly relatives still alive in Blaenau Ffestiniog we know he migrated from Carmarthenshire after 1871 to work on the new railway tunnel and when that opened he stayed north in the slate industry.

Carmarthen RO have twice tried to find his BC without success.

My research is leaning that he was born as John Harris or John Harries to a recently widowed woman living in Trelech but formally resident in Llanboidy (she moved after her husband, a tailor by trade, died of cancer in 1851). I firmly believe that his father was still married and producing children with his wife and I am in touch with some descendants. I sense there may have been an affair.

I can find a John Harris on the 1861 census (as a nurse child born Dinas and resident in Pembrokeshire) and 1871 census (where he is still resident at another farm in service) but then I lose him. I am convinced that his blood mother couldn't raise him as she had two young children and without a husband and the obvious stigma of giving birth without a husband and the blood father was still married. When he was old enough to know the truth he amended his name and added Jones.

There is a Dinas right alongside Trelech and there is a grey area about Carmarthenshire / Pembrokeshire. My great grandfather is unclear where he was born until 1911 when he states Newcastle Emlyn (previously he said it was U/K or Pembrokeshire which supports my research. If this Dinas is correct then there are only 6 birth records that were registered at Narberth which is the closest RO to Dinas (Trelech).

I can remember my grandfather taking breaks at Green Hall Farm, Trelech (and that is a close connection to Dinas). When his cousins sold the farm they moved into a council house in Trelech and my grandfather then stayed with other cousins at Gillo Farm, Cenarth / Newcastle Emlyn and Argoed Farm, Cenarth and I was taken for a break with my grandfather in the mid 1950's to the latter.

Are there any experts in Carmarthenshire who can help me out if there are any baptism / christening records 1852-1854 coverin the areas Llanwinio, Llanboidy, Trelech, Cenarth, Newcastle Emlyn etc. I have a few leads in Carmarthenshire but those folk will not spill the beans.

[omega 1]

Hi sr

I cant really help but it is possible your Greatgrandfathers birth was`nt registered & if he was Baptised his Mum may have been a Baptist.
The Non Conformist PRs as far as i know are at the NLW.There was talk of them being given to the revalant Record Offices.

I sympathize with you,i have same problem with my Welsh Greatgrandfather  he was Base born & not registered.

I wish you luck in your search

Omega

[sr30765]

I have been to great lengths with my research and have obtained certificates which would support my theory. He may not have been registered, true, but there were a lot of base children in these families and everyone else is registered and GRO references found. The families were then marrying off base children from one family to base children of others, the mind boggles on what I have uncovered.

I have contacts in Carmarthenshire but I know of several people who will not say a word. If he was not registered I cannot see him being omitted from the censuses as well.

There are still a few research options left to me. I have only about 4 or 5 queries to sort out in over 14000 names so I have decided to leave my GGF till last

[Morganllan]

Have you seen the birth of John Harries Jones in Llandovery district in 1851 (Jun Q)
Llandovery vol 26 Page 678

[sr30765]

Yes thank you, had that checked out as well. I have even downloaded all births under John Jones, John Harris & John Harries 1851-1855 and tracked most of them through the census records.

Nothing will surprise me anymore the way my ancestors behaved