Ann Neal - Newbold Verdon b 1834

[Sarah63]

Hi Sarah
Got a bit confused there, thought I'd send myself a reply without knowing it lol
All the best people are called Sarah, either that or we're dead common!
Sarah

[sarah]

I am going with option "a"

All the best people are called Sarah,

[Lorraine Jones]

Hi both, just to let you know that I'm also still looking into the Neal family history (George Neal was my great great grandad).  I was lucky enough to visit someone last week who thinks he has a couple of photographs of George, from the time he was working for the Beaumonts of Coleorton Hall.  The first is a group photograph taken in 1919 of all the estate staff - about 1,000 people.  I had seen one of these before (there is a copy on the wall of a local pub), but the gentleman I met had had the photograph digitally enhanced and enlarged - it was amazingly clear.  He asked me if I could seen anyone on it I recognised.  I've never seen a picture of George Neal, although I know there was one on the wall of my great grandma and granddad's house in Thringstone and my dad had told me he had a very fine beard!  I studied the picture and found someone who looked just like my granddad.  The person I met with told me this was the man he had identified as George Neal.  He then showed me another photograph which was beautiful - a real chocolate box picture which he believes to be George, his wife Rebecca Ann, their daughter Fanny and possibly George's mother in law.  They are all very smartly dressed and standing in the idyllic garden of Valley Cottage in Coleorton where the Neal family lived.  He also had another photograph which he thought was possibly George and his wife at haymaking some years earlier.  Unfortunately the photographs had been given to him on the understanding that he didn't distribute them, but it was a real pleasure to see them, particularly knowing what poverty George had worked his way up from.  I've also recently (after not doing any research at all for a while) visited Hinckley Library in Leicestershire, where I found a copy of the original parish record for the marriage of William Neal and Theophilia Elliott in 1795.  Interestingly William signed his own name on the register, so must have had some education.

[tedscout]

Oh Lorraine,

I am crying happy tears reading your message.

I so wish that I could see those photos of George. From stories handed down in my family. Ann Neal could read and taught her children. I don't think our George would have become bailiff without some book learning.

Did you get a copy of William and Theophilia's marriage certificate. I don't know much about her but I feel her blood runs in my veins. Some people on my tree are just names and dates but Theophilia (or Theo as I have named her) is someone I feel very close too.

Thank you for telling me of your continued journey into our family history.

Love Ted (Patricia Freeman)

[Lorraine Jones]

I know how you feel, I was a bit teary when I saw the photographs.  I always felt closer to my grandma's side of the family, she told me so many stories, but granddad never really did.  I thought George must have had some education, he certainly couldn't have been a Farm Bailiff without knowing how to read and write, very interesting that he could have been taught by his mum.  I didn't get a marriage certificate for William and Theophilia, I don't think they had them at that time, this was a microfiche copy of the original parish register.  My next line of investigation is whether William (Theo's husband) was a Methodist.  There is a William Neal who was baptised in Chapel Street Hinckley, around 1772, so I'm going to see if they have a copy of the original of that at Hinckley.  I understand Chapel Street had a schoolroom attached to it from around 1770.

[Sarah63]

Hi both
Wow photos that's fantastic. Which pub are they in? We go over quite a bit I wouldn't mind having a look.

My Nan, Mary Rebecca Neal George's granddaughter always talked about George as someone who had made good and she spoke a lot about the farm, I think most of the rest of the family were down the pit so George was definitely a cut above. It's interesting what you say about identifying with some ancestors, I identify with Ann Neal and use her as an inspiration, she really had to fight to keep her family together and did everything she could to support them with little help from the men in her life! It's interesting what you say about her educating her children, I've got quite a few newspaper articles about her getting charged in the petty sessions with not sending the children to school, instead sending them out to work. I don't know how she managed really, these men seem to go off and marry other girls after having a couple of children with her. Her older sister also had a child out of marriage but she goes on to marry and have a stable life, it must have seemed very unfair to Ann.

I'd be interested to hear if you find out more about Theo I've found her on the 1861 census as Theophia Chrashaw aged 92 but no death cert also I can't find her on the 1851 census and I've tried spelling both names every which way! She certainly lived a long life!
Sarah63

[Lorraine Jones]

Hi, the photographs were on the wall of The Angel in Coleorton, but it must be a couple of years since I last visited there.  The pictures were a bit dark and grainy, the digitally enhanced one was amazing but I imagine it must have cost quite a bit, so I was very grateful to see it.  I've also seen the newspaper articles about Ann Neal not sending her children to school, but it would have been understandable if they'd got nothing to eat unless they worked.  I know the names of the fathers of her first 3 children, but not come across any others yet.  I'm more than happy to share any information I have but I know some people like to try to find out for themselves, it's part of what makes it interesting.  I had no idea Theo lived so long, I've been searching for her everywhere.  At first when you find an unusual name you think great, they'll be easy to find, then you see how many different ways it's been spelt ...  We did find a possible baptism record for her at Hinckley Library, in the Desford Parish Records, as Theophila Ellet, daughter of William and Anne, baptised 28th June 1772.  As the marriage record for Theo and William said they were both of the parish of Desford, this and the non conformist baptism record for William Neal also in 1772 are the most likely ones I've found. 

[Sarah63]

Hi Lorraine
Thanks for the info about the pub. My great aunt George Neal's grand daughter is still alive and lives over nr ashby and a lot of the family are still over that way so I might drag my mum over to the pub for a look. I know what you mean about Theo and her name spelling! I'd given up on her and was going down and along so looked at all her children and followed them through on the census and there she was living with her daughter Ann. I've been on a mission since to find a death cert but no luck grrrr! It seems both her names can be spelt a zillion ways!
I've got details on Smith and Bevin for the father of Ann Neal's children from newspaper articles and Kenny? (Not sure about him, tho Benjamin does use his name) but no death details for Ann, not sure if I'm looking for Neal or Kenny? Also do you have death details for George Neal b1851? I went to WDYTYA live at the NEC last month but apart from inspiration and sore feet I didn't get any further on. I'm descended down through John Lee Neal, you?
S 🙂

[Lorraine Jones]

Hi, I'm descended from George Neal through his son Philip, who married Sarah Wilkins, their youngest son (also Philip) was my granddad.  I too have been looking for the burial place of George Neal for some time.  I thought I had found a record of his death in 1918, but evidence I've found recently has suggested that this was too early - I've been lent a book called 'Memories of Coleorton' which states that George Bird, son of Rebecca Bird nee Neal, was born in his maternal grandfather's house at Fish Pond Cottages in 1927.  There is a memorial bench in Coleorton Millenium Gardens which says he was Farm Bailiff from 1880-1920 (I think he worked for the Beaumonts for that length of time, not always as Farm Bailiff).  I think I need to look as some of the original parish records again, as on-line and transcribed information isn't always accurate.  Coalville Library has a Local Studies Room with quite a bit of information on microfiche, I'll let you know if I get anywhere!