1901 & 1911 censuses Philip MURRAY Kilcroe Gortkelly

[josey]

Another kind rootschatter pointed me in the direction of these census records. In 1901 aged 50 & 1911 aged 64 Philip MURRAY was living in Kilcroe, Gortkelly with wife Margaret. He was a labourer. Children were [on the 1901] Johanna b 1883 Denis b 1885 Margaret b 1889.

Does anyone have informatio on this family, particularly who Philip's father was? My interest is that, as Philip is not a common forename, the family may be related to my g g gfather Philip MURRAY b 1813 who enlisted in the 87th regiment in Nenagh in 1837 & on discharge in 1859 stated he intended living in Carrick on Suir, so appears to have his roots in Tipperary. He married in Borrisokane in 1831.

The Philip I mention from the censuses is of a suitable age to be a son of Philip 1813.

Any help gratefully received.

Josey

[shanew147]

A marriage cert for Philip and Mary would give his father's name and occupation which might show a link for you.

On the 1911 census they state they are married 35 years - so c1876

You can search the for a possible marriage match on the  - Civil BMD Index

see also : Introduction to Irish Records



Shane

[annclare]

A quick search of index of  Baptismal records at http://tipperarysouth.rootsireland.ie/quis.php?page=0&prevStartQuery=0 and also the Tipperary North site
http://tipperarynorth.rootsireland.ie/
does not show a Philip Murray with father Philip during the time period in question. 
Do you know the  religion of the Philip b. 1813 as neither of these sites have the full RC parish records - but they do have the R.C records for Borrisokane and Carrick-on Suir.

annclare

[shanew147]

two possible marriages for the name ... both a little before 1876, but since Philip's age is out by 4 year they could fit..


 Name: Philip Murray
 Registration District: Thurles
 Event Type: Marriage
 Year: 1872
 volume : 8 / page : 533

 Name: Philip Murray
 Registration District: Thurles
 Event Type: Marriage
 Year: 1872
 volume : 3 /  page : 643


Shane

[shanew147]

I'm not sure exactly where Kilcroe is in relation to Borrisoleigh.. but there are two possible possible children  for Philip and Mary in the extracted civil records on familysearch (these only include some births up to 1881) :

 Name: Patrick Murray
 Birth Date: 11 Mar 1872
 Birthplace: Tipperary  (Borrisoleigh)
 Father's Name: Philip Murray
 Mother's Name: Mary Fahey
 Reference Number: v 3-2 p 727

 Name: Philip Murray
 Birth Date: 28 Aug 1880
 Birthplace: Thurles, Tipperary  (Borrisoleigh)
 Father's Name: Philip Murray
 Mother's Name: Mary Fahy
 Reference Number: v 3 p 566


Shane

[sooty24]

Hi Josey,

I agree with Shane having checked the rootsireland.ie site and cross checked with family search I am almost certain that Shane is correct that Philip Murray married Mary Fahy in 1872. I cross checked the marriage indexes on familysearch and Philip Murray and Mary Fahy marriage 1872 are both vol 3 page 643. Three of the children Johanna (on Census 1901) Margaret and Denis also on the census were born to Philip Murray and Mary Fahy (Rootsireland) the dob s also are pretty accurate. You need to see the marriage cert  as Shane suggests to find out Philip's fathers name.

[josey]

Many thanks to you all.

Annclare: The family were definitely RC. However, as Philip 1813 was in the army from 1837 his children may have been born abroad; his discharge papers said he served in the East Indies for 8 years. His son Patrick my g gfather was born 1846 in Scotland when Philip was stationed there. I will try looking at military births for the period.

Shane & sooty: I will follow up that marriage & order the certificate 1872 vol 3 page 643 sooty has kindly identified to find Philip's father. The fact that this Philip & Mary had children named Patrick & Philip before the 3 children on the 1901 census is very promising.

Thank you all again for your help. I'll post again when I have the certificate.

Josey

[josey]

Sooty,

Can you tell me how found the mother's name for Johanna, Denis & Margaret on rootsireland? I can only see a field for entering father's name on the free index.

There is a gap between the children Patrick 1872 & Philip 1880, possibly more children may have been born but died young. I have identified a few possibles with father's name philip but am unable to see the mother's name to confirm they were born to Philip & Mary.

I will try to find sons Patrick & Philip on the 1901 census.

Thanks, Josey

[shanew147]

...
Can you tell me how found the mother's name for Johanna, Denis & Margaret on rootsireland? I can only see a field for entering father's name on the free index.
...

They've added an advanced search facility for some counties which allow some searches using details of mothers names. The North & South Tipperary sections seem to be included in this update. see : RootsIreland - News (the second item)


Shane