Author Topic: Lady Ann of Clontarf?  (Read 76290 times)

Offline Joseph L. Oliver

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Re: Lady Ann of Clontarf?
« Reply #324 on: Friday 09 February 18 00:54 GMT (UK) »
Hallmark, MonicaL, Sue222, Despair:

I've finally gone over all your posts since Jan. 31st.  You've added three pages to this topic, and when I try to wrap my head around the information you've dug up and are trying to put together, I get dizzy.  I don't know how I could properly thank you for all you are doing.  Please, if you are ever in Chicago, let me know.

Regards,

Joe
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Offline despair

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Re: Lady Ann of Clontarf?
« Reply #325 on: Friday 09 February 18 15:33 GMT (UK) »
Whatever the distant relationship between the reasonably contemporary John Sutherland(born 1771) and Ann Bermingham(born 1780),I can't see it yielding the simplicity of the "first daughter" lineage of the story.
I am still drawn to the Johanna Gore/Daly line.
I have managed to find a portrait of Johanna Gore on a private tree,and am seeking the permission of the owner to publish it.As I am hopeless at recognition,I can't tell whether it supports or refutes the argument.It certainly looks a portrait of someone older than "Lady Ann of Clontarf",which doesn't help.(I'm fairly sure I haven't published it before!)
Patience is required.

Regards
Roger

Online MonicaL

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Re: Lady Ann of Clontarf?
« Reply #326 on: Friday 09 February 18 15:53 GMT (UK) »

Patience is required.


We have plenty of that  ;)

Monica
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Offline despair

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Re: Lady Ann of Clontarf?
« Reply #327 on: Sunday 18 February 18 17:32 GMT (UK) »
I now have the portrait (bdelow) and permission.No matter how hard I try I can't convince myself she is Lady Ann of Clontarf even given the difference in ages of the ladies in the respective portraits,and the "amateur" nature of the handed down portrait.The nose looks too aquiline and the chin too weak(?).

Regards
Roger



Online MonicaL

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Re: Lady Ann of Clontarf?
« Reply #328 on: Sunday 18 February 18 21:26 GMT (UK) »
Just bringing the two images together to help with any comparisons:


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Offline Ruskie

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Re: Lady Ann of Clontarf?
« Reply #329 on: Sunday 18 February 18 21:50 GMT (UK) »
I was expecting to say there is no resemblance whatsoever, however, looking at the two images side by side, surprisingly, I think there are some similarities.

I think the major difference is the chin. She looks slightly double chinned in the painting and fine chinned in the image with the bonnet. That may be due to lack of skill of the amateur painter or the fact that she was younger and more full faced when that was painted. The sitter in the second picture is looking down a little so the angle is different.

Brows are slightly different but that could be explained by fashions* or the amateur painter  trying to make her look more glamorous.

Still, though there are differences I think they could be the same person.

*Added: By "fashions" I mean that the painter may have depicted features in a particular way as it was a fashionable look at the time, rather than the sitter physically possessing those attributes. For example, a high and fine brow might have been in vogue whereas in reality the sitter may have had lower brows as depicted in the second image, so the painter may have conformed to what was fashionable.

Using that logic I suppose it could be the case that all images of ladies of the time had a similar 'look' about them. They probably did.  :)

It is often difficult to determine if two photographs are of the same person, and it is doubly difficult when you are looking at drawings, prints or paintings when there are so many other variables to consider.  :-\

Online MonicaL

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Re: Lady Ann of Clontarf?
« Reply #330 on: Sunday 18 February 18 22:29 GMT (UK) »
The mouths and the set and look of the eyes is where I see possible similarities.

Monica
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Offline despair

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Re: Lady Ann of Clontarf?
« Reply #331 on: Sunday 18 February 18 22:41 GMT (UK) »
I was prepared for dismissal,it's the hope that's difficult to bear....


Regards
Roger

Offline Joseph L. Oliver

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Re: Lady Ann of Clontarf?
« Reply #332 on: Monday 19 February 18 03:11 GMT (UK) »
Well, for what it's worth, what can be said is that the comparison doesn't rule out the possibility, and neither does it prove it.  Sure didn't hurt to try. 
Burke, Sutherland, Curtis, Cuter, Koplik