Help needed finding a needle in a haystack.

[Tati]

I have also been given permission by my better half to get the necessary birth certificate.

LOL! Excellent 

I take it the witnesses aren't any help either?

[Braindead]

The witness names are  a  ? ? ? Friend and Jane Friend.

I haven't decided whether Friend was their surname or relationship to the happy couple!!

 

[Annie65115]

Oooh, how frustrating!

Of course, if it was all the same woman, she was quite good at bending facts such as her name, so we wouldn't necessarily expect the marraige certificate to give the full unadulterated truth.

And if they were different people, all I can say is that there's an awful lot of coincidences going on.

(It also struck me that if Mary Broadwood, wife of Charles, was having a fling with a duke, then she was clearly moving in the sort of social circles that might include diplomats as well).

[Braindead]

(It also struck me that if Mary Broadwood, wife of Charles, was having a fling with a duke, then she was clearly moving in the sort of social circles that might include diplomats as well).

According to the newspapers, at various points Michel Bartholomei met Queen Victoria, the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Edinburgh - who was married to the daughter of the Czar. He also met the Czar's brother and from that, I'd assume that he met the Czar too.

So yes, they certainly moved in the same social circles, although I wouldn't have thought that Mary was popular with the aristocracy after her fling with the Duke ended up in court!

[Braindead]

My brain's really starting to hurt now!

I got the birth certificate today for Rose Tatiana Bartholomei and...

...mother's name: Frances Mary Broadwood formerly LOWTHER!     

Can anyone help me now?

I've had a quick search on Ancestry but haven't as yet waded through all the possibilities, but nothing immediately springs to mind. Any thoughts or suggestions?

[Annie65115]

There's a Frances Lowther and Henry Broadwood as a possible marraige in St Martin's in 1840on freeBMD, but would that be too early?

[Braindead]

I think that would be too early - but thanks for looking.

Re-assessing the evidence, the marriage certificate for Mary Short / Charles Broadwood in 1854 gives both as "full" age, putting Mary's year of birth as around 1833 if that is correct.

I got to thinking about one of my first ever roots chats posts: This photo dating thread, which put the date of the picture at about 1860 and the age of the woman as in her early 20s. If that's correct we're looking at a year of birth between 1835-1840 slightly young for the Broadwood marriage, but managable.

It seems that this lady was married to someone by the name of Broadwood but was a widow by the mid 1870s.

She then married again and became a Bartholomei.

In her daughter's marriage banns in France she's Marie Broadwood Tourmaly Hamilton & in the licence she's Mary Broadwood Hamilton (the Frances has gone, but that could be an easy mistake by Hélène)

I am still inclined to thinking we've got a many-aliased lady here, but it's getting more difficult to link her with Charles - I'd like to find the truth though as she still intrigues me, an interesting lady even if she's not who I thought, and there's not an obvious fit for a Lowther so far. Of course it could just be another alias...

[Tati]

In her daughter's marriage banns in France she's Marie Broadwood Tourmaly Hamilton

The image looks like Tormaly or Formaly: I was wondering if it was just a misunderstood 'formerly'

[Braindead]

It is a possibility that it could be formerly, but as far as we know she wasn't "formerly Hamilton". There is also the language issue - my experience of French is limited to Google translate & it doesn't seem a similar word in French: anciennement or autrefois. The family were fluent French speakers too at that time as well.
As to where do I go next, I think I'll have to invest another £9 on Hélène's birth certificate as I don't have that one yet.