My mystery

[Canada03]

I am hoping someone will be able to provide some advice or ideas as I wrestle with this one!

My ancestor was Ann Brown born in Portmoak Kinross in 1839, daughter of William Brown ploughman.  I have found her aged 2 in the 1841 census with her father, mother Magdalene Butters and new born brother William and in subsequent census with other siblings as well.

However, her marriage cert (to Alexander Soutar in 1866) recorded her parents as William Brown (ploughman) and Mary Winton/Wanton.

I went back to the 1841 census and did find Mary Winton aged 25, in the same community, living with a 4 year old Mary Brown (among others). Well, at the time I thought it was entirely logical that a close family friend would be looking after  a child to help out a new mother (remember that William and his wife Magdalene had 2 year old Ann and new born William with them). 

Also, given the date she had her first born, Ann Brown was quite pregnant when she married Alexander.  So I thought she may have turned to her family friend when marrying - maybe her situation had caused friction in her own family.  Or just a mis-recording by the local church.

Until I recently located Ann Brown Soutar's death certificate.  She died in 1907 and the certificate notes her parents as William Brown, Ploughman (deceased), and Mary Brown M.S. Winton (deceased).

I have not found any marriage for Winton/Brown or Wanton/Brown (but to be fair, I have also not found a recorded marriage for Brown/Butters either).  I have found Mary Winton in other census (beyond 1841) where she seems to have more children but no husband.

So.  There seem to be a few possibilities:
- I have been looking at the incorrect family, and Ann was indeed the daughter of married William Brown and another Mary Winton  OR
- William Brown and Mary Winton had a relationship that resulted in Mary and Ann, but for whatever reason he 'married' Magdalene Butters and they took Ann to raise and went on to have 7 more children.  If this is the case, I am surprised that Ann would be aware of this in terms of being able to state the correct name on her marriage cert (and for her offspring to know this for her death cert).

Is there another option or something I am not seeing for having stared at this so long?
All input gratefully received .

Sharon

[osprey]

I can see a marriage on SP for Ann Brown & Andrew Soutar in Burntisland in Fife in 1866. Is that the one? One of the witnesses looks to be called Magdalen B.... possibly Brown.

By the way, their first child Janet was born before they married. Her baptism is in IGI C114641 for Portmoak, Janet dau of Ann Brown bp 13/8/1863.

One of the Soutar daughters is called Magdalene, so there's something odd here. Did Magdalene take in her husband's child?

Mary Winton is shown as single on her death cert, registered by her son William.

 

[Canada03]

Yes, that is the marriage. 

The witness would have been her sister Magdalene Brown (that is, for the family where mom is Magdalene Butters.  William Brown and Magdalene Butters had: Ann b 1839, William b 1841, Janet b 1843, Alexander b 1845, Jane b 1846, Magdalene b 1848, Helen b 1850 and Cecilia b 1852).

Ann and Alexander had: peter b 1866 (my ancestor), William Brown b 1868, Andrew b 1870, Alexander Butters (!) b 1872, and Magdalene b 1873.  I have not previously come across a Janet, so I will need to check that out!  Will see what I find - thanks for this.

All of these signs seem to point to William Brown and Magdalene Butters as Ann's parents.  The references to Mary Winton on Ann's marriage and death certs has me wondering if Magdalene Butters took in her husband's daughter by Mary Winton.  There is always the chance that there are two Ann Brown's with William as their father (but the naming patterns of Ann Brown Soutar's children seems to negate this).  OR Magdalene Butters was a Winton too? Although she is shown as Magdalene on all census...

It does really look like William Brown was a bit of a rake.....but I want to be sure I am not missing something else.  I would have thought something like that would have been quite shocking and kept a family secret,  not something that she would note on her marriage (or her son note on her death cert).

UPDATE: I have now found William Brown's death cert in 1899, Markinch Fife.  Widower of Magdalene Butters. Informant looks like it may be A. Soutar, son-in-law.  So the correct folks, but no nearer to knowing the M Winton connection.  IF Ann was the illegit dau of William Brown and Mary Winton, raised by william and Magd Butters, would there
be a record of this in Portmoak parish files?

[MonicaL]

Hi Sharon

IF Ann was the illegit dau of William Brown and Mary Winton, raised by william and Magd Butters, would there
be a record of this in Portmoak parish files?

No suggestions unfortunately other than a mistake being made by Ann for her marriage entry and repeated in her DC (it does happen sometimes that wrong names were put down by groom or bride, and a pain it is when this happens  ).

The fact that there is a birth entry showing for Ann on the OPRs for 1 May 1839, with mother as Magdalene Butters and father William and all the other documentation you have (census, witness names, her children's names and Ann's husband reporting her father's death) would make me think you had the correct family for Ann, with mother as Magdalene. Her birth (or christening) entry would not have shown mother as Magdelene unless this was so. Have you looked at the original entry on the OPRs for her birth?

Have you looked at the death cert for Magdelen Butters? If so what were her parents' names and those of William Brown?

Monica

[osprey]

Janet is on the 1871 census with the family and in 1881 is in Portmoak as a   servant with a Small family. 

[Canada03]

Monica - yes I have a copy of an original baptism entry, and it shows William and Magdalene as parents (looks like Kinneston Portmoak?) if the correct Ann.   Magdalene Butters death certificate in 1891 has her son as an informant and sadly little info on her parents.  _____ Butters (ploughman) for father and mother "not known"

Osprey - thanks for that.  I was able to locate those, and a copy of her birth certificate. Can I ask how you found her originally?  I have found the SP search function to be a little frustrating - I don't want to complain, because the price is right (certainly compared to England) but I find it hit and miss sometimes.  I have often wondered why you can't search for post 1855 births by parents. I also have some folks who moved to a non-conformist church and although they are in "family search" data base there is no sign of them in SP.

Thanks for your input, everyone.  I think for now I will continue to work on the assumption that I have the correct Ann, and keep my eyes open for any resource that might confirm or deny a relationship to Mary Winton.   

I have been coming back to this for a few years now, and getting a little more info each time (now the death certs for William and Magdalene, and Ann Brown Soutar).  I thought I would take advantage of all the expertise here to see if there was another angle I might be overlooking - as I said sometimes it is hard to see the forest for the trees:)

regards
Sharon

[osprey]

I spotted her on the census in 1871 on Ancestry as born Portmoak and there was no Janet Soutar baptised around the right time. But there was a Janet Brown with mother Ann and no father shown.

There's advice on the main Scotland board about making the most of SP searches that can help save credits.


My one Scottish line has a family of 11 children all born Portmoak - not a baptism to be found for them. OPR burials don't survive for the parish, though there may be some mortcloth dues. I think one set of grandparents for those children married in Strathmiglo, and yes, the marriages for the period are missing as well & they died before 1855.

 

[GR2]

Hi.

In a case like this a good place to look is in the minutes of the kirk session for the parish. The session investigated cases of illegitimacy and associated 'sins'. If you are lucky you might find quite a lot of detail.

Graham.

[Canada03]

Thanks for this Graham - do you know where these would be available? (my first experience with these)