John Gardner/ Stirling Lunatic Asylum

[Albanwraig]

Hello,

I am trying to find out whether the John Gardner who died in Stirling Lunatic Asylum on 30 May 1880 is the husband of Ann Gaff [1821 - 1893]. On the death certificate there is no mention of parents, wife's name, or marital status. The age is given as 60.

Although the eldest child, Janet was born in New Monklands [census] in 1844, in the censuses of  1851, 1861, 1871,  and 1881 the family is in Slamannan.

John is a master baker, employer in 1851 and 1861 censuses.

By 1871 Ann is head of the family, a grocer, with two of their sons bakers.

Ann's death certificate of 1893 says that she is "married to John Gardner" and the informant is their son James. The details as to parentage are "correct".

I cannot find John in any census after 1861. Would the inmates of the  Asylum be individually registered in a census, or would initials only be used?

Would the Asylum record details about John on his admission?

Are the records of the Asylum available?

Thank you for your time

Helenor

[donkeykong]

I have that registration as well because I think it is the same person but it is LARBERT HE DIED IN . It was one of Stirling districts Asylums.Not actually Stirling Asylum as it statesat to topofthe registration

[Forfarian]

Bellsdyke Hospital (originally called Stirling District Lunacy Asylum) was set up by Stirling District Lunacy Board in September 1865 and the first patients arrived in June 1869. The Stirling District Lunacy Board was formed in 1848 and an Act of Parliament in 1858 enabled district asylums to be built and maintained by county authorities. Bellsdyke Estate was purchased from Dundas of Carronhall in 1865 in order to build the hospital. In the 1930s the hospital came under the jurisdiction of Stirling District Mental Hospital Joint Committee. In 1960 following the Mental Health (Scotland) Act the name Bellsdyke Hospital was adopted. The original buildings were extended with additions in 1882, 1893, 1896, 1907, 1915 and the 1960s. [From http://www.scan.org.uk/catalogue/].

The catalogue does not make any reference to patients' records, but the plans and a magazine are held by Falkirk Council. You could try asking them if there are any surviving records of patients. www.falkirk.gov.uk/archives

Yes, an asylum would normally have recorded all these details about John on his admission. Usually such records are extremely informative. However the absence of such information suggests that they omitted to do so, or that if they did, whoever registered the death could not access it.

That, plus the fact that Ann's death certificate describes her as 'married to' rather than 'widow of' John Gardner would make me hesitate to assume that this John is her husband.

I would try to take a look at other deaths in the asylum in 1880, and see if they have the full information about the people concerned. If they don't then the omission can probably be ascribed to poor record-keeping. If, on the other hand, the full details appear for most or all of the other deaths, that would suggest to me that they genuinely didn't know who this John Gardner was, in which case he is probably not Ann's husband.

[donkeykong]

Thanks for the info you sent it is great.The certificate I have, I have not used because as you say there is still doubt as to who this person is. On the census for 1881 Ann is down as a widow.But unable tofind 1891 census.

[josey]

Try contacting davy.campbell

Here is a post from him I remember from Aug 13
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=657458.msg5033191#msg5033191

[Albanwraig]

Hello All,

As no one had responded to my original post in 2011 I did not add what I had found out.

I got in touch with the Stirling Archives: this is the answer I got:




The surviving records of Stirling District Asylum, situated at Larbert are held by Forth Valley health Board. The gentleman you need to speak to regarding this is a Mr Tom Selbach. A link to their website is given below: -

http://www.nhsforthvalley.com/home/Contact/Contact.html
 
{I'm afraid that I did not manage to get through on this link and just left it. - Perhaps one of you might have more luck - or expertise!}

It may be worthwhile looking in the Parochial Board records for the Parish of Slamannan to see if you can find a record of John Gardner's referral to the asylum. As Slamannan is now situated in the Falkirk Council area, any surviving records for the Parish should be with Falkirk Council Archives. A link to their website is given below: -

http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/community/cultural_services/museums/archives/archive.aspx



I then got in touch with Falkirk  Archives and got:


Thank you for your email.  Unfortunately we don’t hold any records of the Stirling Lunatic Asylum ( Bellsdyke Hospital ) in the Archives.  All surviving records are held by NHS Forth Valley .  You can see our factsheet containing some information about where to find mental health records (along with the relevant address for NHS Forth Valley ) at the following link:
 
http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/community/cultural_services/museums/archives/pdf/medical_records_for_family_history.pdf
 
You can see from the factsheet that some records are also held at the National Archives of Scotland.
 
You mention in your email that the family was in Slamannan between 1851 and 1881 (at least).  We do have some records for Slamannan Parish Church and Slamannan Free Church.  You can see what we have at this link:
 
http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/community/cultural_services/museums/archives/finding_aids/churches.aspx
 
and then clicking on the name of the relevant church.
 
I think that Kirk Session records are unlikely to be helpful, as they only tend to mention individuals if they’ve committed some misdemeanour.  The Communion Rolls might be more useful, as they contain the names of individuals who took communion in the church. 

For example, I took a quick look at the Slamannan Parish Church Communion Roll for 1867-1877 (catalogue number CH2/331/17), and I found a number of Gardners listed in it (but no-one under the name of Gaff). These Gardners generally seem to be blacksmiths and farmers, so they’re probably not the ones you’re interested in, but hopefully the pages will give you an idea of what the records look like.  I haven’t looked in detail through all the communion rolls.
 
Unfortunately, I am not likely to get to either Falkirk or Edinburgh: but if anyone else can do so, would you please let me know if you find anything?

Good Luck
Helenor Jones

[Albanwraig]

Me again!

I am still wondering how to access the Asylum in the census and whether anyone knows if the inmates were recorded by initials or by name?

Helenor Jones

[MonicaL]

Hi Helenor 

You have been at this a while...!

What did the children of John and Ann (Gaff) say regarding their father when they married regarding their father? Alive or deceased?

See that second born son John had a memorial stone done for his mother's death...with his immediate family commemorated on it also.

Monica

[Margow]

The records of Stirling District Asylum (including admissions registers and patients' case books) are now held by Stirling University Archives and can be consulted by appointment.   You should contact the University Archivist in the first instance at <archives@stir.ac.uk> 

Margow