Herbert HIRONS

[salhyde]

Hi again Sally

I'm really sorry I can't pick up your personal message as I have only just joined this forum and I believe you have had to post a few messages before being allowed to do so. I did try but was barred from reading your message, very disappointing. I am going to try and digest all the information you have posted on the site and fit it into what I already knew about the family.

I always wondered how Johnny Hyde was related to my father, he was very proud to know Johnny and say 'he is my cousin'. I remember the family talking about Herbert being the landlord of the Wheatsheaf Inn in Rushden.

Clara (Gt Aunt to me) married Frank Walker, I remember both of them. Do you know much about Herbert's siblings? They lived in Irthlingborough not far from my grandparents, Agnes Mary and Horace William. I was born in 1951 the youngest but one grandchild of Horace Hirons, my oldest cousin was born in the 1920s! By the way, I am the daughter (last and third child of John Leonard Hirons and Constance Isabel nee Buxton), the second son an sixth child of Horace and Agnes Hirons. I have two older brothers, Michael (the rugby player) and Richard.

Elizabeth had an older child born before her marriage, his name was Fred.

I have just moved house so I am working pretty much from memory, all my research stuff is in boxes in the loft, apologies! From memory again, I believe both Elizabeth and Robert Kiddle Hirons were servants at the time of their marriage, which may explain why they married so far away from their home in Northamptonshire.

You may be interested to know that Johnny Hyde taught my older brother to play Rugby when my brother was at Wellingborough Grammar school. Johnny was very much a local hero. My brother played hooker and played for the county youth team as well as some matches for the Royal Navy. He had a good teacher.

I will try and get my head round the family tree at some stage today after I finish my work. I can recall that Robert Kiddle Hirons and Elizabeth were married in Manchester Cathedral, can't remember the date off the top of my head, sorry.

I see you live in NZ. How wonderful. I used to live in Howick, Auckland (Manukau City) in the 80s and early 90s. Miss it so much. Did you emigrate to NZ or were you born there?

You say you met Len, he was a big man, he and Ralph and Horace were all big men with hands like dinner plates! My father used to say his grandmother was over 6' tall ... I assume he was referring to Elizabeth but I can't be certain of that.

Looking forward to having some private chats with you in due course when I am allowed.(I guess the rule is to protect the users from trolls and suchlike).

How lovely to speak to a long-lost relative. I will do what I can to fill in some of the blanks about the family.

Kindest regards
Lesley

Hi Lesley,

I have just read this - I cant beleive I missed it from so long ago. Do you know if Herbert was Roberts biological son? I saw that he was born Herbert White and Fred kept the White surname, but Herbert didnt so I was perhpas trying to read something into that. I was also wondering if you have any photos of our rellies? to share?? :-)  Sally

[markjones99]

My mum gave me a box of old photos but I don't think there are any of Herbert of Bertha Hirons in there, unfortunately. A few of my grandmother, Dora, and maybe some of your grandmother Violet. I seem to recall that my grandmother didn't have fond memories of her father and I suspect he was an alcoholic which may explain why she was against me visiting pubs in my younger days! He died several years before my mother was born and my mum says my grandmother rarely spoke of him. He sounds a shady character!

[salhyde]

Ahhhh, thanks for that – that is really interesting. I have a copy of Herbert's death cert, and it does say he died of cirrhosis of the liver, and him being a publican, I was mentally putting 2 and 2 together. I wonder what 'shady' means? Do you mean he was a criminal or something?? I remember meeting Dora and I obviously remember my gran Violet, but I was 10 when she died. I’ve been trying to get info out of my Dad and his siblings, but they are not really forthcoming.

I also wondered about why Herbert and Bertha are buried in separate graves and have no headstones, I might be making more of it again, but with your info that they were a bit shady, maybe it explains why?? I also saw that Violet and Dora were often with their grandparents on census nights. Anyway I guess we will never know for sure, but alcohol and parenting has never been a great mix. On Bertha's death cert it says she died of TB and exhaustion. Life must have been hard and you can only imagine what life for our Gran's was like.

I would totally love to see any photos you have of Dora or Violet (I have a couple that I have on my ancestry tree).

[markjones99]

Don't look too much into my "shady" comment; it's just speculation on my part! Dora rarely spoke of her past to either me or my mum. I knew she lived at the Wheatsheaf in Rushden with Violet when they were kids and she was not happy when I used to visit that pub as a lad. I remember her telling me that nothing any good ever went in there! She did tell me that she was living there when the war memorial was being built and that both she and her sister put their names in a glass bottle that was "hidden" by the builders inside the memorial. Whether this is true or not, I have no idea! As for the graves of Herbert and Bertha, I've never got round to looking for those. The cemetery is only 15 minutes walk away so I really should do that.

I'll try and get round to scanning some of the old photos in the next few days. If you PM me your email address, I'll get some sent over to you.