Author Topic: Battle of the Boyne, 1690 Account Book  (Read 18092 times)

Offline PRich

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Battle of the Boyne, 1690 Account Book
« on: Tuesday 25 October 11 18:59 BST (UK) »
I would be very interested to know if anyone has yet managed to gain access to the Paymaster General's account book which apparently lists brief details relating to each of the 35,000 soldiers who fought at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690.  Many will be aware that this book was 'discovered' at Belfast City Hall back in late 2009 and then donated to the Orange Order. 

Are there any transcription projects ongoing?  Of course, many of King William's former soldiers are known to have later settled in Ireland after the Boyne so such a document is immensely important to serious genealogists.  I have lost track of the number of times people have told me that their ancestors settled in Ulster as a result of having 'come over with King Billy' and now we, finally, have a way of potentially proving these claims.  Does anyone know if PRONI intends to obtain facsimile copies of the book?     

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Offline TheWhuttle

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Re: Battle of the Boyne, 1690 Account Book
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 05 November 11 01:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi PRich,

Thanks for bringing this document to the attention of us Co. Antrim researchers.
Agreed - the document is potentially a very rich source of family history information.
['Twas created during a period of much turmoil, but also control (martial law).
 I know of another (of much lesser scale) from the same 1690 timeframe.
 See later.]

It is supposed to be being made accessible for public perusal at the Orange Order's HQ (Schomberg House) in Cregagh, Belfast.
[... but filmed security copies must have been made by now for storage/research elsewhere.]
http://www.boyneobelisklol1690.com/paymaster_general.php
http://www.grandorangelodge.co.uk/parades/schomberg_house.html

To find out, I've taken the direct approach and EMailed Dr. Jonathan MATTISON asking about efforts on transcription, indexing and supply of typical samples.  Awaiting response.
[Expect there might be a book in the offing ...]

----
I have a selfish interest, in connection with my efforts helping in the research on the WHITTLE family at Glenavy... being particularly concerned to establish whether the Reverend John WHITTLE went across to Ireland during 1689-91. Earlier he had been a chaplain to the British regiments on permanent loan to the Dutch from King Charles II. He was present during all of the fervent activity of late 1688, being the famous author of "An Exact Diary of the Recent Expedition ..." held in the British Museum. There he reported on WoO's preparations for invasion, the eventful voyage to Brixham in Devon - landing on 05-NOV (one day after WoO celebrated his birthday quietly at sea), his thanksgiving sermon at Exeter, and the long/slow canny progress up to London.
[I know that he was NOT the Rev. John WHITTLE who was at St. Canice (CoI) in Kilkenny. He died in 1686.]
He is mooted to have come from a prominent family in London, possibly a brother of both Sackville WHITTLE (physician to King Charles II) and his sister Elizabeth WHITTLE, who was the 1st wife of Sir Stephen FOX.

FOX was exiled in Holland with the Royal family, managing their finances, during the Commonwealth period. Following the Restoration of the Monarchy he was appointed as Paymaster General of the Army during King Charles II's reign, and was one of the co-founders of the Royal Hospital in Chelsea. He is also recognised to have been the first self-made man.
[In his famous diary Samuel PEPYS recalls seeing FOX (who was his boss) at the WHITTLE home "counting more gold sovereigns than he had ever seen in his life"!]

Whats the connection?
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bevangenealogy&id=I48432
In June 1690 Coningsby was appointed joint paymaster-general of the army which William was about to take to Ireland. His colleague was Charles Fox, son of Sir Stephen Fox; Fox managed business in London while Coningsby looked after requirements in the field.

Both FOX and CONINGSBY were ardent WHIGs (Liberals), such also being the political persuasion of the low-church Anglican WHITTLEs at Glenavy, whose stem, James WHITTLE, was supposed to have been the only Whig member of Dublin City Council (hence an Alderman) at one stage.


----
Whats the other document from 1690 that I know of?
It is a list of the names of Excise defaulters.

It is likely to have been inspired by another of CONINGSBY's roles:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Dictionary_of_National_Biography_volume_12.djvu/17
He was appointed joint receiver and paymaster-general of the forces employed in the reduction of Ireland, was (168990) commissioner of appeals in the excise, ...
Guess he was trying to raise funds locally in order to pay the army!


It was transcribed by record agent Tenison GROVES, before the originals were destroyed in Dublin in 1922.
[It is snapshotted within ... LDS British Film 0258497 "Surname W. and Co. Antrim Abstracts".]

The huge physical archive of TG's works is held at PRONI, indexed by large item numbers.
For this transcription the relevant sections are:
 
14902, 12 pages (an index of names)
Collector's Accounts 1690-1
Bundle 6E-3-5
Lisburn District
Army Accounts
 
14903, 21 pages (list of names, by district)
  Inland Excise & Lycenses
Arrears Delivered to Mr. John LATHUM, Collector of the District of Lisburne,
by Nicholas WESTBY.
Lisburne District
Nicholas WESTBY Collr
Arreares of Inland Excise, Ale, Wine + XWatter Lycences
for eight months ending the 24th of June 1690
Covering Walkes: Lisburne, Glanavy, Hillsborrow, Antrim, Ballymenagh

14904, 17 pages (list of names)
  Arrears Due in Lisburn Walke at Xmas 1691

 
Capt. Jock & Revving Jock
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

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Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Battle of the Boyne, 1690 Account Book
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 13 March 12 18:54 GMT (UK) »
Captain Jock,

Did you get a reply to your enquiry about accessing the book?

Elwyn
Elwyn

Offline TheWhuttle

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Re: Battle of the Boyne, 1690 Account Book
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 14 March 12 13:11 GMT (UK) »
Elwyn,

Yes, I had a gracious reply from David HUME, MBE, Director of Services for the Orange Order.

The photographing of the pages and the (electronic) indexing of the entries in the 1690 Paymaster General's book is "currently underway", under the control of "The Archivist".

Today, I've made a request for a further update on progress, and ultimate public access.
Watch this space!

----

Also, as a further diagnostic to differentiate records, I have asked for a check to be made for the presence of Edward DERING 3rd Bt. of Surrenden-Dering, near Pluckley in Kent.

In March 1689 he was requested by William & Mary to raise the 24th Regiment of Foot in Kent.
[That regiment, now based in Wales, still visit St. Nicholas church to honour their founder.
 Also to kiss the ground on which Catherine Zeta JONES stood while making the Darling Buds of May!]

ED took them in to Ireland under Schomberg later that year.
He died soon after in October 1689, aged 39, and was buried at Drogheda.
[Much of the army went down with disease at that time, with many soldiers shipped to Belfast to die.]

If ED is not present in the 1690 Paymaster General's book, then this indicates that it must be distinct from the "Schomberg Army Lists of 1689" mentioned in  http://www.lisburn.com/books/historical_society/volume9/volume9-7.html .
[I had a hunt for these a number of years back at the British Museum, but drew a blank.]

----

David HUME authored a magnificent book, launched recently.

Eagle's Wings: The Journey of the Ulster-Scots and Scotch-Irish
ISBN-10: 1906578966
Published: Colourpoint, 2011
256 pp

A great read!

Capt. Jock
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

Offline Mykin

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Re: Battle of the Boyne, 1690 Account Book
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 March 12 13:46 GMT (UK) »
PLEASE, please put the news on here when you hear that the book is available,
I desperately need it also. I live in Canada and don't hear everything that is going on. There was a bit in the newspaper when they found the original book, it hadn't been seen for many many years. I think it was down behind a bookcase or something. It was very exciting for such an important find.   mykin
Co.Antrim- Boomer (Bulmer), Partridge, Houston, Alderdice,
Co. Down- Leckey (lackey etc), Taylor,

Offline TheWhuttle

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Re: Battle of the Boyne, 1690 Account Book
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 22 March 12 02:17 GMT (UK) »
Mykin,

Your passionate call resounds loud and long!

David Hume (following his 18thC namesake) surely can be only sympathetic ...
"Desire rather than Reason governs Human Behaviour ..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume

Rest assured, I've got a real-time-post triggered for when the info arrives.
However, all's been quiet since 08-DEC.
[Hmm, one day after 07-DEC ... hope the doors haven't been slammed shut ...
 Never a hint of any feedback yet ... not even a quietly whispered "No 'Surrenden-Dering' "!]

Maybe some of us could offer our help to complete the recording/indexing task.
[Perhaps best presented politically in person accompanied by the recent "Ulster" Rugby Union try scorers,
 with a declaration that "we haven't come to let the grass grow under our feet".
That should get things moving!]

Capt. Jock
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

Offline Lady Di

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Re: Battle of the Boyne, 1690 Account Book
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 22 March 12 02:26 GMT (UK) »

Add my name to the list of those passionate in finding further details about these transcripts.

Di
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Offline annlynn9

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Re: Battle of the Boyne, 1690 Account Book
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 22 March 12 15:47 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks, Capt., for informing us and following up. I and a whole host of American cousins will be very eager for news of the availability of data and images from the account book. An Ulster ancestor was reported to be a Williamite supporter at the Boyne named Col. Widney (a/k/a Wodney, Woodney, Udney, Udnie, Udny, and Owdny). Of course the story may be flawed, but it is proven that there were captains and lieutenants in this Ulster Scot family during the early to mid 17th century.

Lynneage

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Battle of the Boyne, 1690 Account Book
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 22 March 12 16:12 GMT (UK) »
Billy Marshall, King of the Galloway gypsies, took a band of  (presumably raggle-taggle) gypsies to fight at the Boyne. So that was three kings there on the day!

Skoosh.