Help please with Jane married to William Griffith Williams

[Paula Griffiths]

Re:
1851 H0107 2512 442 15 - Civil Parish Llanfihangel Y Pennant - Address Prenteg
William Griffiths Head mar 31 Penmorfa Caernarfonshire - Agri Lab
Sarah wife 30 Penmorfa
William Williams son 5 Llanfihangel Y Pt
John Williams son 4 Penmorfa
Robert Williams son 2 Penmorfa
Sarah Griffiths daugh 1mth Llanfihangel Y Pt

I am following this family to attempt to make a connection and wondering if anyone can assist with Sarah's previous husband.

There was some discussion earlier in the post re possiblities of her maiden name & marriage but I was unsure of them as I was following the line that if her children were born between 1846-1849 as Williams,  that her husband perhaps didnt die until at least 1848 and therefore her re-marriage to Griffiths was after that point.

I am very confident that her husband was in fact William Griffith Williams c1820, the father of William G Williams who from 1871-1911 resided at Pant Llwyd with his wife Jane but just need the clarification.

I have come across a number of trees online of Sara's son John Williams (used Griffiths) who married Sarah Griffiths - the information shows John passing away at Tyny Gro Prenteg but there is no information of John's parents (except what is listed above).

Any help would be greatly appreciated, many thanks in advance.

[Ladyhawk]

Re:
1851 H0107 2512 442 15 - Civil Parish Llanfihangel Y Pennant - Address Prenteg
William Griffiths Head mar 31 Penmorfa Caernarfonshire - Agri Lab
Sarah wife 30 Penmorfa
William Williams son 5 Llanfihangel Y Pt
John Williams son 4 Penmorfa
Robert Williams son 2 Penmorfa
Sarah Griffiths daugh 1mth Llanfihangel Y Pt

I am following this family to attempt to make a connection and wondering if anyone can assist with Sarah's previous husband.

I found these baptism on familysearch

30 Jan 1850 Penmorfa - Robert Griffith
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X116-PTY

10 Jul 1857 Penmorfa - Robert William Griffith
 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X116-PYS

27 Sep 1855 Ellen Williams Griffith & Mary Williams Griffith
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X116-N6J

2 Jul 1859 Henry Williams Griffith
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X116-G3J

and these details of their  baptisms were kindly sent to me by a rootschatter

all at Penmorfa:

Robert Griffith 30th January 1850 Prenteg Labourer
Sarah Griffith 10th November 1851 Prenteg Labourer
Ellen Williams 27th September 1855 Tyn y Gro Labourer
Mary Williams 27th September 1855 Tyn y Gro Labourer
Robert Williams, 10th July, 1857 Tyn y Gro, Labourer
Henry Williams, 2nd July 1859 Tyn y Gr Labourer

didn’t find baptisms for the two elder boys William and John

Here is the explanantion given for the two surnames

The reason some of the children appear as Williams is that the family were still using the patronymic naming system, which is very late to be honest.

Some families seem to have been extremely confused about which name to use and you do come across instances, like in your family, of two different names being used.

The registers here do note that the surname is Williams

 e.g. 'Henry Williams, son of William & Sarah Griffith'
(it is an easy & common mistake with these cases to assume that the surname is a middle name).

I was going to order what I thought was Sarah's birth certificate but decided to wait to see if I could firstly find the correct birth certificate for Evan (born c1884) son of William G Williams & Jane as this is the line I'm interested in. Due to family reason things have been on hold but I recently sent for a marriage certificate of their son Evan - which I hope will turns out to be correct one  - as soon as I receive details will let you know.

Hopefully this will confirm his father is the William G Williams living Pant Llwyd 1881/1891 with his wife Jane - then I can move on from there - have a possibility for Evan's birth entry which would then give me mother Jane's maiden name then hopefully can move onto William & Jane's marriage and confirm his father's name etc......

[Paula Griffiths]

Im waiting on a certificate for WGW born 1846 so once received and confirmed will post information and fingers crossed that will clear up the earlier query

[Ladyhawk]

No middle name for father William
BUT pretty certain I have the correct marriage cert. for the Evan Williams I'm looking for 

1908 Marriage detail
Evan Williams age 25 (c1883) occ Farm labourer
his father William Williams occ Quarryman
Witnesses  Robert JONES & Annie WILLIAMS

1911 living Rhondda (this is the correct Evan Williams as his address & occupation match up with the b/c of a later child
Evan married 3 years age 27 (c1884) pob Brynteg Caernarvon occ Colliery repairman below ground

1901c RG13; Piece: 5260; Folio: 57; Page: 8
Evan Williams age 19 (c1883) Llanfihangel Caernarvon occ Farm Labourer

1891c RG12; Piece: 4648; Folio: 43; Page: 17
Evan Williams age 9 (c1883) Penmorfa Caernarvon
father William occ Slate Quarry Miner mother Jane
he has an older sister named Ann

Evan’s father William Williams, William G / Gth Williams
1911 Mwnwr Mewn Chwarel Lechi = Miner in Slate Quarry
1901 slate quarry man
1891 slate quarry miner
1881 slate miner -  RG11; Piece: 5553; Folio: 47; Page: 11
1871 slate quarry workman - RG10; Piece: 5700; Folio: 18; Page: 8

Ideally I would like to find the correct birth entry of Evan to obtain his b/c to find out his mother's maiden name  there are a number of Evan Williams born in Caernarvon around the same date and to add to the frustration his pob is different on each of the censuses

Not sure what registration district Brynteg Caernarvon comes under

Llanfihangel & Penmorfa are in the registration district of Ffestiniog
there is an entry for an
Evan Williams Dec 1883 Festiniog (so maybe this could be the correct one)

for info.

Looks as if Evan’s sister Sarah Williams born c 1870 bapt 7 Jan 1871 Penmorfa
married a Robert Richards Mar 1896 Festiniog

William Gth. & Jane Williams have their grandson living with them in 1911

1901c RG13; Piece: 5260; Folio: 17; Page: 4
Owens Street Prenteg
Sarah Richards wid 31 (c1870) Llanfihangel Pauper
Jane Richards 3 Penmorfa
William Richards 1 ‘’

1896 marriage http://www.rootschat.com/links/0xbu/

Jane Richards bapt 10 April 1898 Penmorfa
William Richards bapt 18  March 1900 Penmorfa
(no parents named – family search)

possible death age 32 Robert Richards Dec 1900 Festiniog

possible remarriage
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC2N-MHV
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0xbt/
Sarah Richards to Robert Williams Dec 1904 Festiniog
( stepdau named Jane Richards born c1898 pob given as Tremadoc)

Im waiting on a certificate for WGW born 1846 so once received and confirmed will post information and fingers crossed that will clear up the earlier query

Keeping my fingers crossed that this William Griffith Williams might be the father of Sarah & Evan Williams

a shame there's no marriage entry with the name William Griffith Williams to a Jane around 1870?

a marriage possibility as dau Sarah seems to be their first child born c1870 bapt Jan 1871
(she's 3 months old on 1871 census - taken night of 2 April 1871)

William Williams Mar 1870 Festiniog name on same page Jane JONES http://www.rootschat.com/links/0xbv/

From 1911 – 1871 c Jane Williams born c1850 pob Penmorfa (1871), Llanfihangel, Llanf. y Pennant

at the moment I’m leaning towards this Jane JONES from 1851/61c as being Evan’s mother
BUT to be certain I know I need to confirm mmn from a b/c of one of their children to make sure I'm following the correct line

1851 HO107; Piece: 2512; Folio: 493; Page: 30
1861 RG9; Piece: 4326; Folio: 17; Page: 10
Jane JONES born c 1850  Penmorfa grand child of Evan & Eleanor JONES

Jane & William Williams name their children
Sarah 1870 (names first child Jane, 2nd William)
Ellen 1872
Jane 1873
William 1875
Mary 1880
Ann 1882
EVAN 1883 (names first child William, 2nd child Ellen Jane)
Lizzie 1887
John 1888
Griffith 1890