Charles William Henry Hill

[Nat-London]

I'm definitely going to investigate the possibility of that. Hopefully, it all the "pieces of the puzzle" will come together soon.

Best wishes,
Natasha

[seaweed]

Searched Merchant Navy records yesterday for Charles William Henry Hill. The only possible I can find is the Weymouth man born in 1903.
Merchant seamen regularly lied about there age, usually to attract a higher rate of pay or to cover up their previous misdemeanors which would have detrimental effect on their future employment prospects.
I note from his card CR1, stamped at Newcastle in October 1941 is a first issue. In other words for whatever reason he is not in possession of a discharge book.
For the purpose of elimination, If nothing else, you should look at the logbook and crew agreement, of SOMERSET COAST official number 143620 for the period including October 1941. This should tell you his last known address, his previous ship? and his next of kin.
You would need to visit the National Archive, Kew  to view.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11043773

search via official number

You also have to consider that your man lead a double life and the Merchant Navy story was a convenient way of covering his tracks. Would not be the first time.

[colin12]

Hi Natasha,

There are not many C W H Hill around, however, the one I have is from the Hill family, born 2 Feb 1905 in Weymouth, Father Charles William Hill and mother Ellen Hill the father was a ships carpenter.

He does have two neices that live in Hampshire who knew him. Unfortuneately I never found his death record. Could this be you 'man'?

Any other help please contact me

Regards
Colin

[Nat-London]

Dear seaweed and Colin,

Thank you very much, I will check this link.
On his wedding certificate (May 1941), he is recorded as being a fireman and the same occupation ( this time specifying the Merchant Navy) is written on his daughter's birth certificate in November 1951. It will be interesting to see if his wife, Eileen Hill, is his next of kin.

We know very little about him and it is possible that there are other things we haven't considered. As his father was a shipwright, it is not surprising he would have followed him into a similar line of work. From what I've read, the job of a fireman was extremely tough and it appears that he was doing this for well over ten years. Does the record from 1941 (the link you've kindly given me) relate to WW2 involvement?
Weymouth Charles has a birth date of 2nd Feb on 1905 in terms of birth index. The exact same name for the Merchant Navy in the National Archives is also 2nd Feb, but 1903 and this would be a remarkable coincidence if it is not the same person.
Colin- I think that Weymouth Charles may be the one as father's name, occupation are the same as well as the shared name of Ellen, mentioned previously. It would be great to confirm this. Like you, I cannot find any death records. My mum is not sure if she died when she was a baby (around 1952) or later on as she has a very vague memory of someone telling her he had died, possibly at some point in the late fifties.
I have a copy of his wedding certificate and I'm happy to attach this if it helps?
I wonder if his nieces could confirm this is him, with regards to his marriage in Cork,1941?
Best wishes,
Natasha

[seaweed]

 Does the record from 1941 (the link you've kindly given me) relate to WW2 involvement?

Yes but I can find no other wartime records for him. No medal entitlement, no seamans pouch. Nothing.
It may well be that his seamans pouch has been lost or destroyed and he declined his wartime medals, many did.
The only course I can see open is his form CRS (Continuous Record of Service)10 Which will tell you what vessels he served on together with dates and places of engagement and discharge. Again you would need to visit TNA Kew to view.
These records are stored alphabetically in blocks of sixty names. If the one concerning CWHH is anywhere it could be in one of two references.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10989009
or
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10990684

You will need his Discharge A number. R231393.

[Nat-London]

Thank you very much- I will look this up, in the National Archives.

In terms of working as a fireman for the Merchant Navy (before and after WW2), are there any other ways I can find records of his service there? Or it seems as though they may not exist? From what you've said, the seaman's pouch would normally be the record of this.
It is strange to not have any record of 10+ years (possible) service.

Best wishes,
Natasha

[seaweed]

Yes if a man served under the Fourth Register of Merchant Seamen effectively 1918-1941 and then served under the Fifth Register of Merchant Seaman 1941-1972 his records pre 1941 would be contained in his seaman's pouch. Many seamans pouch's some 95000 were destroyed in the mid 20th century.
So the only way to find his pre 1941 sea service is to back track via Logbooks and Crew Agreements. Crew agreements should give the name or official number of his previous ship. This is easier said than done as the majority of Crew agreements pre 1939 are stored in Newfoundland. some at Kew and the remainder, for years ending in "5" at NMM Greenwich.

[Nat-London]

Many thanks, what a shame so many were destroyed.
I will investigate the National Archives link ASAP.
Best wishes,
Natasha

[Nat-London]

Dear seaweed,

Would you mind directing me towards the site where you have found his C1 card?

Best wishes,
Natasha