Author Topic: Rev. John Kirk 1795 - 1858  (Read 5540 times)

Offline dream_angel720

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Re: Rev. John Kirk 1795 - 1858
« Reply #18 on: Friday 21 July 17 15:55 BST (UK) »
I can't help with Rev Kirk, but his predecessor was my 2nd cousin 5 times removed.

Thank you! May I know his name? Still trying to wrap my head around the family tree...

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Offline Forfarian

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Re: Rev. John Kirk 1795 - 1858
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 23 July 17 17:49 BST (UK) »
I can't help with Rev Kirk, but his predecessor was my 2nd cousin 5 times removed.

Thank you! May I know his name? Still trying to wrap my head around the family tree...

Rev Thomas Guthrie (1803-1873) was minister of Arbirlot before Rev Kirk.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

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Offline dream_angel720

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Re: Rev. John Kirk 1795 - 1858
« Reply #20 on: Monday 24 July 17 03:35 BST (UK) »
I can't help with Rev Kirk, but his predecessor was my 2nd cousin 5 times removed.

Thank you! May I know his name? Still trying to wrap my head around the family tree...

Rev Thomas Guthrie (1803-1873) was minister of Arbirlot before Rev Kirk.

Thanks! I wonder if it was a coincidence that Rev John's wife was named Christian Guthrie Carnegie though.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Rev. John Kirk 1795 - 1858
« Reply #21 on: Monday 24 July 17 08:17 BST (UK) »
Interesting question.

I consulted Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae on this.

Christian Guthrie Carnegie (1803-1865) was the daughter of Alexander Carnegie of Redhall (1762-1836), minister of Inverkeilor, and Elizabeth Skirving (d 1835), whose father Adam Skirving (1719-1803) was a tenant farmer at Garleton in East Lothian and wrote, among other things, the song 'Johnnie Cope'.

Alexander Carnegie was the son of John Carnegie (d 1805), minister of Inverkeilor, and Catherine Walker (d 1790), whose father was William Walker, farmer in St Fort in Fife.

Christian was the eldest daughter of Alexander Carnegie and Elizabeth Skirving, and their sons were named John and Adam, suggesting that they followed the naming tradition. In which case, you might expect Elizabeth Skirving's mother to have been Christian Guthrie. I can find no evidence for this, however.

There is, in the National Galleries of Scotland, a portrait of Adam Skirving bequeathed in 1901 by David Ainslie, and I note with interest a marriage of an Adam Skirvine to a Jean Ainslie in Athelstanefore in 1748.  The artist was Adam's son Archibald Skirving (1749-1819), who also painted several notable persons of his day. This David Ainslie was probably the son of William Ainslie and Martha Skirving, baptised in Leith in 1813.

Adam Skirvine seems to have been born in Athelstaneford, son of Archibald Skirvine and Grizel Howden (spellings vary!). In 1803 a David Skirving married an Elizabeth Carnegie in Athelstaneford; their first son was Adam, but their daughter was named Janet so Elizabeth's mother was probably not named Christian.

So there is no obvious family reason for Alexander Carnegie and Elizabeth Skirving's first daughter to be named Christian Guthrie.

There is no Christian (or variants) Guthrie in any part of the extended family of the Rev Thomas Guthrie until his eldest daughter Christina, plainly named after her maternal grandmother Christina Chalmers, was born at Arbirlot in 1833.

Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline dream_angel720

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Re: Rev. John Kirk 1795 - 1858
« Reply #22 on: Monday 24 July 17 12:14 BST (UK) »
Interesting question.

I consulted Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae on this.

Christian Guthrie Carnegie (1803-1865) was the daughter of Alexander Carnegie of Redhall (1762-1836), minister of Inverkeilor, and Elizabeth Skirving (d 1835), whose father Adam Skirving (1719-1803) was a tenant farmer at Garleton in East Lothian and wrote, among other things, the song 'Johnnie Cope'.

Alexander Carnegie was the son of John Carnegie (d 1805), minister of Inverkeilor, and Catherine Walker (d 1790), whose father was William Walker, farmer in St Fort in Fife.

Christian was the eldest daughter of Alexander Carnegie and Elizabeth Skirving, and their sons were named John and Adam, suggesting that they followed the naming tradition. In which case, you might expect Elizabeth Skirving's mother to have been Christian Guthrie. I can find no evidence for this, however.

There is, in the National Galleries of Scotland, a portrait of Adam Skirving bequeathed in 1901 by David Ainslie, and I note with interest a marriage of an Adam Skirvine to a Jean Ainslie in Athelstanefore in 1748.  The artist was Adam's son Archibald Skirving (1749-1819), who also painted several notable persons of his day. This David Ainslie was probably the son of William Ainslie and Martha Skirving, baptised in Leith in 1813.

Adam Skirvine seems to have been born in Athelstaneford, son of Archibald Skirvine and Grizel Howden (spellings vary!). In 1803 a David Skirving married an Elizabeth Carnegie in Athelstaneford; their first son was Adam, but their daughter was named Janet so Elizabeth's mother was probably not named Christian.

So there is no obvious family reason for Alexander Carnegie and Elizabeth Skirving's first daughter to be named Christian Guthrie.

There is no Christian (or variants) Guthrie in any part of the extended family of the Rev Thomas Guthrie until his eldest daughter Christina, plainly named after her maternal grandmother Christina Chalmers, was born at Arbirlot in 1833.

Thank you very much for this detailed post. I have not the confidence to venture into researching Rev John's family or his wife's yet, hence my previous question. My current focus is his eldest son and others; nevertheless as things stand, I'm covering most of his (children's) descendants as well which is daunting.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Rev. John Kirk 1795 - 1858
« Reply #23 on: Monday 24 July 17 12:24 BST (UK) »
Well, if and when you start to be interested in the family of his predecessor for your parish history, let me know. No sense in re-doing what has already been done. I know of 729 descendants of the Rev Thomas Guthrie, and am in touch with several living ones.

Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline GJW1

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