Author Topic: Jacob VAUTIER marriage - Bethnal Green area?  (Read 7025 times)

Offline eastender

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Jacob VAUTIER marriage - Bethnal Green area?
« on: Thursday 02 December 10 17:42 GMT (UK) »
I need inspiration. For a while now I have been trying to get over the brick wall which is my ggg grandfather (Jacob VAUTIER - various spellings, born about 1775).

I was lucky enough to find a fairly precise entry in the Huguenot Society, Quarto Series Vol LIII: 'Inmates of the French Protestant Hospital, Threadneedle St. & Applicants to the Coqueau Charity 1718 - 1901'  which linked him conclusively to his son Jacob VOLTIER, but with the bumper bonus information: "On Father's side.   The Petitioner is the grand son of Alexander Deays [i.e. Pierre Alexandre Dehais, q.v.] that
died in the house in Bath Street in the year 1812 he Was Clerck"

Documents to support his application were:
(1)   Certificate of the admission of an ancestor of the Petitioner John Vautier to the Company of "Ouvriers en Soie" in the year 1722 as a Foreign Master; the rules of the Company & advice
to apprentices in French;

(2)   Marriage Certificate of Jacob Voltier & Sarah Dehaye of the parish of St. Dunstan Stepney on 21st November 1799;

(3)   Marriage Certificate of Jacob Voltier & Hannah Harper at St. Leonard Shoreditch 28 February 1836.

I had thought that item (1) would have led somewhere, but I've been unable to find any such record. Item 2 connects the famiily to a fairly well researched line via GOG(U)LIN to LARCHER. However, I am having trouble tracing Jacob V(the elder b. ~1775).

I have a baptismal record for "Jacob VAUTIER, son of Jacob, weaver and Elizth VAUTIER" - St Matthews, Bethnal Green,  June 1775, which is almost certainly him, but I can find no marriage for this Jacob and Elizabeth in the Huguenot Society records for London. There are quite a few VAUTIERS but no conclusive links. There do seem to be two VAUTIER lines though: the rich and famous one, and the poor one. Guess which I'm descended from.

ps Does anyone out there know any more about "the house in Bath Street" mentioned above?

Wocha, Vocha, Vautier, Dehais, Delahayes, Horsburgh, Lucas, Roe, Vaughan, Rosser, Tully, Osborn, Dick. Huguenots.

Offline richarde1979

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
    • View Profile
Re: Jacob VAUTIER marriage - Bethnal Green area?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 02 December 10 19:50 GMT (UK) »
"the house in Bath Street"

I'd imagine they are just referring to the French Hospital itself which from 1719-1865 was located in Bath Street, St Lukes parish. After that date it moved to Victoria Park, Hackney.

As for the marriage, Huguenots could not marry in their own chapels after 1753 because of Hardwicks marriage act. In practise, even before that time very few actually married in the French Church, from about 1700 the majority used the Anglican parish church, because this would give any children subsequently born to the marriage parish settlement, and entitlement to parish relief, and provide for the eventuality that they might be orphaned.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline eastender

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Jacob VAUTIER marriage - Bethnal Green area?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 02 December 10 20:45 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the information. Unfortunately, I haven't found a marriage in any of the parish registers available online either. Your point about eligibility for parish relief was interesting - that hadn't occurred to me.
Thanks again
Fred
Wocha, Vocha, Vautier, Dehais, Delahayes, Horsburgh, Lucas, Roe, Vaughan, Rosser, Tully, Osborn, Dick. Huguenots.

Offline richarde1979

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
    • View Profile
Re: Jacob VAUTIER marriage - Bethnal Green area?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 02 December 10 21:50 GMT (UK) »
I can't find their marriage either unfortunately.

Nevertheless given the French Hospital entry it is possible to track the family fairly well.

John/Jean Vautier, the foreign master weaver, first appears in London on 15 January 1699/1700 when he married his wife Jeanne/Jane Larchevesque at St Dunstan's Parish Church, Stepney. He joined the Threadneedle Street French Huguenot Church officialy at the next big ceremony on 26 May 1700, with a testimony from Jacques Pigne. Jacques Pigne was originally from Luneray, just outside Dieppe, in Normandy, and had joined the church 7 years previous with a testimony from a member of the Duboc family, also of Luneray. (They were featured as ancestors of the actress Julia Sawalha in a 2006 edition of BBC Who Do You Think You Are).

This leads me to believe that the Vautiers were also of Luneray, and there is some evidence that like the Dubocs they were, and originally first part of the Huguenot congregation in Canterbury, Kent, before moving to London. Once in London John Vautiers closest business partner seems to have been Jacob Lardant. The Lardants, Larchevesque, Pigne's and Vautiers are four of eight families specifically mentioned in a list of Londons Huguenot Weavers,  who originated in Luneray, in Irene Scoulodi's 1985 book  "Huguenots in Britain and their French background, 1550-1800".

The online database of the registers of the Huguenot Temple of Luneray seems to confirm their close links, just a couple of examples, a  Jean Vaultier marries a Jeanne Pigne there on 11 July 1632. A Jean Vautier, son of David Vautier and Madeliene Lardant, was baptised there 13 November 1667. The surnames appear many times, often linked.

In the list of Protestants who abjured the 'Heresies of Calvin' (doubtless under extreme duress) in Luneray there are Pierre Vautier, Jean Vautier and Suzanne Vautier, all children of Nicholas Vaultier and Susanne Michel, on 28 November 1685, about a month after Louis XIV revoked the Edit of Nantes, stripping Protestants of any civil status, and outlawing the practise of their religion. That Jean might possibly be the one who turned up in London.

In any case, returning to London, after their marriage, John Vaultier and Jane Larchevesque had the following four children baptised at the Threadneedle Street Church

Elizabeth Vaultier, baptised 20 May 1700, of Paternoster Row, Spitalfields, Stepney, godparents Jacques Pigne and Elizabeth L'Heureux

Judith Vautier,
baptised 17 Jan 1703, of St John Street, Bethnal Green Hamlet, Stepney, godparents Jean Vautier and Judith Larchevesque

Jacob Vautier, baptised 9 Apr 1705, of Dorset Street, Spitalfields, Stepney, godparents Jacob Lardant and Madelaine Vaultier.

Jean Vautier, baptised 27 June 1709, godparents Jean Pigne and Elizabeth Pigne.


For first two decades or so, John operated independantly and outside of the Weavers Company, but as you know eventually joined their ranks in 1722 , on November 26th, as a foreign born master weaver, on afferdavit of service from Isaac Larchevesque. The same day he had his 17 year old son Jacob Vautier officially bound in service to him as his apprentice.

Jacob and his elder sister Judith had both been inducted, as full adult members, into the congregation of Threadneedle Street French Huguenot Church, a few months earlier the same year, 1 Aug 1722, on the testimony of their father.

Jacob went on to marry Marie Hiquet (down in English records as Mary Hakey) when he was 27 years of age, on 31 August 1732, at the same church his parents had married, St Dunstan's in Stepney (which was, in any case, still the parish church for Bethnal Green until 1743)

Their son Jacob Vautier was born 14 January 1736, and baptised 8 February 1736 at Threadneedle Street French Huguenot, and he is likely the same person who as an adult married Elizabeth, and was father to 1775 Jacob, your ancestor.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London


Offline eastender

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Jacob VAUTIER marriage - Bethnal Green area?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 03 December 10 10:29 GMT (UK) »
I can't thank you enough for your comprehensive and informative reply.
My best guess at Jacob's grandparents had been Jacob=Mary HIQUET, but I had no positive proof. The only small clue I have is that the VOLTIER=DEHAY marriage was witnessed by John or Jacob (indistinct) BERTRAND. There is a Samuel VOTIER=Mary BERTRAND marriage in 1729, but I haven't been able to tie them in with my VAUTIER family or to find a John/Jacob BERTRAND birth.

Anyway, I now have lots more to think about. I'm off to trawl through the Temple of Lunaray site.
Regards
Fred
Wocha, Vocha, Vautier, Dehais, Delahayes, Horsburgh, Lucas, Roe, Vaughan, Rosser, Tully, Osborn, Dick. Huguenots.

Offline richarde1979

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
    • View Profile
Re: Jacob VAUTIER marriage - Bethnal Green area?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 03 December 10 12:40 GMT (UK) »
No problem Fred

In regards the other part, Pierre Alexander Dehay, did die in the Old French Hospital, at Bath Street, St Lukes, though his grandson Jacob Voltiers record is wrong in as much he died there Feb.10, 1818, not 1812, which was in fact the year he was admitted. He was married 19 Feb 1770 to Mary Swaby, and Sarah who married Jacob Vautier was their daughter.

Pierre himself was a silk weaver and born 25 Nov 1744 in Spitalfields (baptised 9 Dec 1744 at La Patente Hugutnot Chapel). His father Jean Dehays was a refugee from the area of St Jean De Folville/St Nicholas De Taille, small neighbouring villages just south of Bolbec Town, in Upper Normandy the Pays de Caux.

His mother Elizabeth Goglin was born in London, and baptised at Rider Court French Huguenot, Westminster 1723. Her parents were John Goglin and Elizabeth L'archer/Larche. They married in the Liecester Fields Huguenot Chapel, Westminster, 1719. John had come over from Sedan, in the Champagne region of France, a couple of years previous, joining the Leicester Fields Chapel in 1717, giving reconnaisence at that time.

Elizabeth Larcher was born in London to Pierre Larcher and Esther des Jardins, both refugees. Like her future husband, her father Pierre was also from Sedan, her mother Esther was from Abbeville, in Picardy. They married  11 October 1696 at the main Threadneedle Street French Huguenot Church. He gave his parents as Francois Larcher and Elizabeth Piet, she gave hers as Jean des Jardins and Helene Joly.

Pierre and Esther Larcher are listed on the records of the 'Spitalfields Soup' which gave help  to the distressed weavers and their families during the arctic winters of 1739-41. His age is given as 69, and hers 67 at that time. Three of their grandchildren with surname Goglin are with them, and their adress is Balls Alley Spitalfields.

Not long after this, in Jan 1749, Pierre Larcher was admitted also, as an inmate at Bath Street, French Hospital, 'La Providence', now aged 78, and died within 3 weeks of his admission there.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
    • View Profile
Re: Jacob VAUTIER marriage - Bethnal Green area?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 03 December 10 13:35 GMT (UK) »
Fred

Have been having a look re this:

"Samuel VOTIER=Mary BERTRAND marriage in 1729"

The wife Mary died in the French Hospital, and gave the info that whilst she herself was born in London, her late husband had been born in Dieppe. This appears to be born out by the records of new members of Threadneedle Street which shows he joined there on 28 July 1724, aged 24, with a testimony from Dieppe.

Dieppe is of course close to Luneray, and I have seen families before from Luneray also give Dieppe as place of origin as it was the nearest big city.

There was also a Samuel Vautier who married a Mary Fallon 31 Oct 1702, and had at least 10 children baptised at Threadneedle Street between 1703 and 1722.

He does not appear to have an admittance record at Threadneedle Street unfortunately but interesting that he appears in London at same sort of time as Jean Vaultier.

There is a Samuel Vaultier baptised 22 November 1671 at the Luneray Huguenot Temple, to Nicolas Vaultier and Susanne Michel, the same couple I speculated as possible parents for Jean, so they may have been siblings. The record gives their place of origin as Greuville, a tiny hamlet on outskirts of Luneray town.

Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline eastender

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Jacob VAUTIER marriage - Bethnal Green area?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 03 December 10 14:50 GMT (UK) »
Thanks again - so much information!

Your last post reminded me of a document on the web about an archaeological dig in the crypt of Christchurch, Spitalfields. This includes a few paragraphs explaining the "complex web of relationships within the Huguenot lineages".

You may well be aware of the article, but other RootsChat members who have an interest in this area (and have a strong stomach) might be interested to read it:

http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/cbaoccpap/pdf/121/121tl003.pdf

Yet again, I appreciate the time and effort you have put into replying.

F
Wocha, Vocha, Vautier, Dehais, Delahayes, Horsburgh, Lucas, Roe, Vaughan, Rosser, Tully, Osborn, Dick. Huguenots.

Offline Tsu

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,051
  • Ellen Rondeau 1885-1960
    • View Profile
Re: Jacob VAUTIER marriage - Bethnal Green area?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 03 December 10 16:23 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for that link eastender.  I'm a Rondeau.  I'd never seen that before although I do remember the dig taking place (I lived in Mile End at the time).

My ancestor John Rondeau (1706-1790) was sexton of Christchurch Spialfields from 1761 until his death so this was particularly interesting.
East London:
Happe/Hoppe (St. Georges in the East)
Stanley (middle name Thurston)
Rondeau (Spitalfields and Salford)
Jones (Bishopsgate - Thomas, Ostrich Feather Manufacturer)
Wood (London City)
McDermott (Londonderry and Stepney)
Upcraft (Bethnal Green)
Chidgey (Shoredtich)
Grim (Bethnal Green)
Row (Mast makers in Wapping)
Spurden (Stepney and Pancras)
Glibbery (Bishopsgate)