Expertese sought -tracking Yorkshire ancestor born pre 1710

[hanleyp]

For over 6 months I have been trying to find birth place of my direct ancestor Thomas Hanley ( agricultural labourer) who married Emma/Emmet  Johnson in Sutton Upon Derwent in East Riding of Yorkshire in 1728. 

Research by Borthwick Institute of York found no trace of either Thomas or Emma being born in the parish . I later came across a cause paper in which Thomas as a witness confirmed in Dec 1729 that he was 25 and had been in the parish approx 4 years .
From a search point --this puts Thomas year of birth --as 1704/5/6 .

Based on the fact that he was an agricultural labourer --and that most agricultural labourers moved under 10 miles -my initial approach was to search parishes outwards from the parish of Sutton upon Derwent --plus those nearby parishes in ER where a  Hanley  name popped up in the IGI websites .

This first search --through Borthwick Institute - found no birth of Thomas ( between 1700 and 1709.) in the 9 immediate adjacent parishes plus some four other parishes in nearby ER parishes I had nominated due to Hanley names pre 1710 

After that failure my next approach has to be study the hanley name pre 1700 in the 3 Yorkshire Ridings to try and pick most likely parishes --and also elimate those parishes where it appears the Family search site covers the time . I have colour coded the parish maps of ther 3 Yorkshire ridings to show both where hanleys existed and where records appear covered on web ( GENUKI ,IGI/Family Search )

This has highlighted to me that many parish records pre 1710 are still not on the web--nor ancestry UK nor Genes Reunited -making the task of tracking down thomas quite difficult .  quite dissapointing in fact --the parish records on genes/ancestry seem no more that on family search .

My coloured maps  reveal that the hanley surname to be most common pre 1710 in West  Yorkshire ( South Kirkby, Leeds, Doncaster, Wakefield,Sheffield and Garsdale  ).  By contrast the name in North and East riding is relatively rare .

So my thinking is that Thomas Hanley is most likely to have moved to Sutton upon Derwent form the south/ West Yorkshire  --and even then from WR parish's near to Sutton upon Derwent  than those than further away ( ie sheffield/garsdale )

In order to narrow the search to a manageable size  I have attempted  rule out for now parishes that appear to have records on family search/IGI for the period 1702-1710 --as detailed on GenUKI .

Following I have asked Borthwick to search a list  of WR parishes records they hold which is close to the ER --which seem not to be on any private/free websites--plus a few more in ER .

The help/advice  I am looking for is on what next to do should Borthwick fail to find thomas .

I could contact Doncaster archives.  Note I am told that most of the Leeds  and Wakefield archives are now on ancesty.uk --which I am a member of .

Another possibility is to contact east yorkshire county records --as I am aware quite a number of parishes still have not records on free web sites --for example Great Driffield.

I wondered how Thomas came to wed Emma --and whether her birthplace could be helpful. There is one Emma Johnson born in Nunkeeling in ER in 1701--but no sign  of Thomas there  on in the adjacent parishes which genUKI suggest are on IGI/Family search .

The other thought is wether Thomas surname was other than Hanley --a few sites suggest the Hanley name could have beeen derived from Ainley --a name which seems to have come fron the halifax parish. Again a WR location .

Any ideas/suggestings on how best to proceed from here .

Philip Hanley.

[sillgen]

Hi
It is difficult to decide whether this should be an East or West Yorkshire request but as most people look at both boards we will leave it here for now as you think the family originated in the West.  I hope you get some advice.    As you have found not all parishes are online and trawling through hundreds is often the only way.  I assume you know that you can get most parish registers on film to search at your nearest LDS family history centre.  They cover many more than are on the IGI.  Have you joined the local history societies?   They can be very helpful.
Regards
Andrea

[hanleyp]

thanks for prompt reply .

never really understood diffrence between IGI site and LDS sites--thought both the same origin.

In any case I have been using the genUKI site for yorkshire ( entering parish name followed by GENUKI) . That takes me to page which states parish details --among which is location and extent of parish records --including what IGI covers .

I have then been searching name on family search site ( LDS) between 1700 and 1710 entering that parish. That is my final check .
So I would say I am using LDS site .

Regards

[sstarr2008]

Have you tried the Hearth tax?  Here is a link for West Yorks    http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,524947.0.html

You could ask on the East Riding forum to see if anybody could do you a surname search for that area.

You are doing what I have had to do for some of my ancestors when I got back to the point where there seemed to be no earlier parish entries. The gaps in the IGI are annoying, though I think that sometimes they are there because there already exists a transcript.

On the subject of Ag labs moving about I have read that it was common practice to hire labourers from the next parish because when they were no longer required they would have to return to their own parish for poor relief and I have found that labourers would often live close to parish boundaries for this reason.
The only other means of extra parochial movement which I have observed is within manors, the coverage of which can be hard to fathom but it is worth looking at.

Stu

[sillgen]

never really understood diffrence between IGI site and LDS sites--thought both the same origin.

The IGI is an index of the ordinances of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.   Nothing more, nothing less. It is not and never has been an index of parish registers although the infomration on it is very useful for us.   Not every parish is covered and even those that are on it often have entries missing. 
However, the LDS church also film a lot of registers and those are available for viewing at their centres.  If you order one you then see all the entries, including burials, and can really build up a full picture of your family.

Regards
Andrea

[dobfarm]

This link shows a map of possible church and chapels

http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/churchmap?GR=SE706473,D=3

You can increase the distance above 3 miles. Use the 'hand fist' cursor to move map about

[dobfarm]

Hi

Its just a possibility ?

Thomas Handley (Han-d-ley )
 birth: 28 Jun 1707 
christening: 03 Jul 1707 SAINT PETER,​ SHEFFIELD,​YORK,​ENGLAND
 parents: Thomas Handley
 
I those days young lads with farming knowledge or brought up in farming areas background were sent to agricultural labour Market auctions in the big town markets where the farmers who would come fair distances! had their pick of the bunch -so to speak. Either Parents or Overseers of the poor often use to either put  boys in these markets or found them apprenticeships in trades etc.

[hanleyp]

Many thanks for your response.

I too had noted a   Thomas Handley bap 3rd July 1707 in St Peter's Sheffield--father Thomas.

Up front I considered it reasonably that my Thomas's father could have been Thomas --esp if first born --so it looked hopeful to begin with .

Note My Thomas's children were in order Hannah, Thomas, William ,John and Hannah. The first Hannah and John died under 5 . The names of his children could be clues to help locate  him.
 
For the time being at least I am not persuing that possibility for two main reasons
 
a) the distance my Thomas would have migrated ( from Sheffield to Sutton  upon Derwent) is almost 70Kms . This distance seems unlikely given the study that states 85% of agricultural labourers moved less than 30Kms in ER in the 18 century.--50% moved under 10KM.
A move of that length , I would say,is probably in the "quite unlikey" classification.

b) My Thomas states his age as 25 in Dec 1729 .  That would mean his year of birth would be 1704 +/- 1 year . How well Thomas knew his year of birth one could not say but to be out by 2/3 years seems unlikely .

I am reasoning that my Thomas moved to Sutton upon derwent aged 21= an age perhaps back then when he was permitted to relocate ??.
That seems to link in with his statement --in Dec 1729 --that he was 25 and had been in the parish some 4 years.
If he were to be born in 1707 -- he would have been 22 in Dec 1729 --and had been 18 when he moved from Sheffield to Sutton .
This suggests his year of birth as 1707 as again "quite unlikely".

I have not rule out the sheffield possibility entirely --but will persue other avenues.

One possibility to completely eliminate the sheffield connection is to find if this person married in the parish --or perhaps next parish ---since we know he married in sutton upon derwent.

Again --thanks for your input.

[Marmaduke 123]

Just to re-iterate - the LDS have filmed many more parishes than have been transcribed and put on the IGI and more recently Familysearch.

You can search their catalogue here:

https://familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlc/

There is also a link on this page to the new version of the catalogue, still in Beta.

If you find anything of interest you can order in the film to a local LDS family history centre for a small charge, and go through it using a film reader.

For some parishes (unfortunately not Sutton upon Derwent) there are quite a few other records besides the actual parish registers, such as the records of the overseers of the poor, settlement certificates etc.

Definitely worth finding out what there is for neighbouring parishes.

Anne