Frederick Albert Rowland m. Elizabeth (Lascelles?)

[adj]

I have Frederick Albert Rowland and his wife Elizabeth based census records from 1881 onwards.  I also have a baptism record for their child, Frederick Charles, though they also had 2 more, Herbert and Gordon, and also had an adopted daughter, Ethel Piercey.

Frederick A Rowland's details so far are:

Birth 18 Aug 1850 in Southwark, London, England
Death Jan 1908 in London, United Kingdom

Elizabeth's details are limited to being born around 1854, in Covent Garden, or St Martin in the field, or Strand, based on different census records.  Also, in the baptism record of Frederick Charles Rowland, it shows her name to be Elizabeth Lascelles Rowland.

But I'm having trouble finding Frederick or Elizabeth's families in the earlier census records, or even locating a marriage record for him and Elizabeth, with any strong connection.

The closest match I've seen so far is a Frederick Rowland marrying Elizabeth Williamson, listed in the Apr-May-Jun 1877, Strand, London, based on the location and year being just prior to their first son Frederick Charles Rowland birth.  This would probably make her the Elizabeth Williamson, daughter of Isaac and Elizabeth Williamson who came from Scotland initially as seen in the 1861 census.  But I don't see the Lascelles connection.  Trying to find Elizabeth Lascelles as either a middle or surname doesn't seem to find anything concrete either.

If someone could have a quick go at finding something a bit more concrete perhaps via alternative sources, I'd appreciate it.

[suzard]

How are you certain Elizabeth Williamson married  Frederick Rowland???

On marriage reg there are 4 names on same page - 2 Elizabeths

Marriage reg freeBMD
Jun qtr 1877
Strand
on same page
William Titmus
Elizabeth Waters
Elizabeth Williamson
Frederick Rowland

1b 874

it looks like you need to purchase one of the chiildren's birth certs

Suz

[suzard]

Wonder where "adopted daughter" Ethel Piercy fits in??

Maybe her mother was beatrice??

Baptism Parish register
St Mark marylebone
14 Nov 1895
Ethel Piercy
mother Beatrice Piercy
address Queen Charlotte Hospital

Suz

[adj]

I ruled out Waters because the 1881 census shows Elizabeth and William Titmuss living with Rebecca Waters, Elizabeth's mother. This still assumes. I've found the correct match in terns of marriage date etc.

[adj]

Wonder where "adopted daughter" Ethel Piercy fits in??

Maybe her mother was beatrice??

Baptism Parish register
St Mark marylebone
14 Nov 1895
Ethel Piercy
mother Beatrice Piercy
address Queen Charlotte Hospital

Suz

That's a possibility, it's going to be difficult to know the circumstances of adopted as legal adoption didn't happen till the 1920s, if I recall.  I should probably get Ethel's birth certificate to confirm as much as I can about her though at some point.

[jorose]

https://familysearch.org shows all three baptisms,
Frederick Charles William Rowland
Herbert Rowland
"Jordan" Albert Roland
 as being in Hatcham, Surrey (see https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Hatcham_St_James,_Surrey )

And the "Lascelles" name is present for all three.

[adj]

Yeah, this confirms what I know from baptism records I've seen, but hasn't really been much help in identifying Elizabeth's own family or her marriage to Frederick Rowland. 

However, I've since done a search for Lascelles over a 20 year period in St Martin in the fields and came up with baptisms for Matilda and Herbert Lascelles.  The latter is an exciting one, as this is the name of Fred and Elizabeth's second son, the first being named after Fred.

From these two baptisms the parents are listed as Herbert Lascelles (Presumably Elizabeth named their second son after her father?) and Harriet Rickwood, and from this I've been able to find out a substantial amount of information about those Lascelles, but no direct confirmation that Elizabeth is the daughter of Herbert and Harriet.   Herbert was a Chaplain, who worked at St Brides, Bridewell, and also travelled to Kanpur (Cawnpore), India, and probably also to Italy as that is where Harriet died.

It appears that Herbert and Harriet left some of the children at home in Twickenham with Herbert's mother, but I've not yet seen Elizabeth Lascelles as part of that family setup.  What I have found though, via someone else's tree, is an unnamed daughter being baptised, having been born in Twickenham, in 1856, to Herbert and Hariet Lascelles.

So I wonder if this is Elizabeth, and whether she just got her birthplace wrong.  I'm still hoping someone will be able to help me confirm this - I've contacted  the owners of family trees who have done a lot of research into the Lascelles, so I'm hoping one of those will be able to help me unravel the mystery.

[jorose]

Normally the fact that Lascelles is listed on the baptisms suggests it is her middle name, not her maiden name. Certainly she might not have known precisely where she was born and given the place where she grew up instead; "Lascelles" may not be a name registered at her birth but one she used later in life.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NP9B-2YD
 - the child baptised 1856 was probably this "Madeline"; she possibly was born in Twickenham as there is a "Female Lascelles" birth in Brentford district.  She may have married in 1890.
Here is her, I think, with grandmother in 1881: (L/S are often mistaken in old handwriting).
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3PK-8GS

Without the birth certificate of one of her children to give you a better idea of Elizabeth's details, you could end up chasing a lot of false leads.

[adj]

Madeline is definitely part of this same family that I described, but would be her younger sister.  In the trees I've seen, Madeline got married, so I know I can rule her out as being Elizabeth.

Madeline and various other offspring over the years had been left at home with her grandmother Ann, while Herbert and Harriet spent time in India and probably Italy.

I think you're right that I'm going to have to purchase a birth certificate of one of the sons and hope it lists her full maiden name.  Hopefully that will help.