1841 Scotland Census - Jane Thorburn [Look up request]

[PabloC]

Hi,

Would any be able to do a lookup on this one for me please?

Charles Street, Langholm

Jane Thorburn age 35
William Thorburn 15
Ann Thorburn 13
James Thorburn 10
Thomas Irving 5
Robert Irving 2

Can anbody please tell me if the 1841 Census for Scotland gives relationship details betwen then head of house and other household members? If so, I would be grateful if anybody could tell me the relationship between Jane Thorburn and the five junior household members, as I suspect they are all Jane's children.

Thanks in advance

Paul

[Gadget]

Hi Paul

As in  the Eng & Wales 1841 census, no relationships are shown.

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Added - also ages of those of 15 and over were rounded down into 5 year age groups - 35 could be any age from 35 to 39.

[Gadget]

Family search has William, Ann, and others as children of John Thorburn and Jane Blake

e.g.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYMW-SXH


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[PabloC]

Hi Brevitas,

I should have mentioned in my post perhaps that I have found the births of the three Thorburn childre, linking them to one John Thorburn.

I believe the two Irving boys are her sons too. She went on to marry one William Murray at some point after this, having further children, one of whom is part of the direct line I am researching.

I am ultimately trying to locate the marriages and sort out the order of the family in general.

Thanks for your help 

Paul

EDIT: ErrorSPAM REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.][/color]I am basically trying to link one Jane Black (her son's 1856 marriage certificate has her maiden name stated as being Black), to both John Thorburn and Unknown Irving, as I have her as Jane Murray in later ccensus returns, with both Irving and Thorburn children living with her and William.

[Gadget]

Hi Paul 

Blake and Black could be confused in the transcription of the OPRs. Have you checked them from the images of the original entries  on Scotland's People.  Nothing in the OPRs for the two Irvin* children in Langholm (checked Thorb* and Bla*k* ). Have you found jane's death cert?

I'll have a look for any bits and pieces later this evening.


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PS - you might get more help on the Dumfriesshire board - have send a RtoM to see if it can be moved 

[Gadget]

The 1851 in Langholm seems to suggest that the 1841 are all Jane's children:

Langholm, Eskdale

William Murray, 53, hand loom weaver
Jane, wife,  50
Anne Thorburn, stepdaughter, unm, 23, warp winder
Matthew Murray, son, unm, 7
Thomas irving, stepson, unm, 17, hand loom weaver
Robert irving, stepson, unm, 13, errand boy

All b. Langholm


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[Gadget]

Interesting~

I found Thomas Irvin* on the 1871 census in Langholm. Followed him back to a marriage to Agnes Main:

27 May 1870, Langholm
Thomas Irving, hand loom weaver, widower, 36. Parents - James Irving, woollen weaver and Jane Black

Note that there is no M.S. to Jane



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[Gadget]

Hi

This is the best match for James Irvin*, woollen weaver that I can find on the censuses:

1851
Charles Street, Langholm
James Irving, 42, woollen weaver
Isabella, w, 43, b. Canonbie
William, s, 6
Isabella, d, 9 ths
All but Isabella b. Langholm


1861
Charles Street, Langholm
James Irving, 51, woollen weaver
Isabella, w, 51
William, s, 16
Isabella, d, 10
All b. Langholm

To find out more about Jane Black/Blake's relationship with James irvin*, you'd probably best look at the Kirk Session minutes for the parish. I'm not sure how accessible they would be at the moment.


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[Gadget]

So, we have

Thomas Irving giving his parents as James Irving and Jane Black
Thomas Irving's death in 1874 gives his parents as James Irvine and Jane Blake
Robert Irvine's death in 1928 gives his parents as Robert Irvine* and Jane M.S. Blake
(*Note - no suitable Robert Irvin* found!)
Ann(i)e Thorburn's death in 1865 gives her parents as John Thorburn and Jane M.S. Blake
Matthew Murray's death in 1881 gives his parents as William Murray and Jane M.S. Blake

John Hiddleston who married Jane Murray in 1872 was the informant on Jane's death cert. He gave her parents as William Blake and Jane Smith.

I think that there is enough information here to be fairly certain that the Black was an anomaly and her surname was Blake.

Jane Blake/Black's bpt:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYM8-462


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