Help need as to what happened to Elizabeth WELSH

[giblet]

Im wondering if Elizabeth and daughter Constance may have gone back to England. Maybe Bertha chose to stay here in Australia.

Bonnie is there as address for Bertha at the time of her marriage? I was wondering who else may have been living at that address the same time as her.

[BonnieDownUnder]

Hi Giblet - Sorry delay replying, had to 'feed my man meat', talking of which, did you see reply from poster Eilleen about 'Mr Bint from the Mint'   

I don't have Constance L. Welsh's birth certificate so don't know her middle name.

Burial of William Welsh, 1867;  will find out tomorrow if anyone else shares his resting place.  Actually it is sad how his death occurred, from 'brain and general debility', which I feel would have been caused by the chemicals in the inks he would have used in this profession;  he was a Printer for many years of Bell's Life newspaper in Sydney.

Re address where Bertha was at the time of her marriage? All it states on certificate is that she was from Sydney.  The marriage occurred on 8 Mar 1886 at Gore Street Fitzroy Melbourne by a Samuel William Asher, a Congregational Minister.  More investigation needed but any suggestions how I go about this?

Like the idea that Elizabeth and Constance may have gone back to England and that Bertha stayed in Australia.  I would need to find out if William left Elizabeth money, when he died in 1867, and how much.   

Judith;  thanks your reply.  I noticed that too on Elizabeth's baptismal record - interesting, and working on how James and John may have been connected.  On Elizabeth's sister (Maria) baptismal record in 1842, James is shown as a 'surgical instrument maker'

Thanks Bonnie

[judb]

So far I haven't found any suitable Constances or Elizabeths  on the England censuses for 1871, or 1881 but I need to have a more thorough look.  I did see John and Maria (parents of John McLellan the child baptised same day as Elizabeth) in later censuses.  Both John and Maria were surgical instrument makers also.

Judith

[judb]

Haven't tried for Elizabeth but "Constance" is a more uncommon name so have had a trawl through 1901 and 1891 England censuses for a Constance b in Australia but no luck as I've managed to trace most of their marriages and they don't fit.  (Of course they could be second marriages so no link to a maiden name).  Elizabeth may also have married again so too hard 

Judith

[BonnieDownUnder]

Hi Judith ... many thanks your efforts trying to find Elizabeth and Constance on English census records;  I too had a search myself and found nothing but with your 'post experience rating', I feel assured that they are not there and need to head down another path.   
So I have contacted the Uniting Church archives office with a request to see if they have a Church Record of when Bertha Welsh (daughter/sister of above) married Mr. Johnston in 1886 and await their reply.

Hi Giblet ... I don't have William Welsh's death certificate and now trying to find where he, and his first wife Christina, were buried.  Also,with William's death occurring at the Tarban Asylum, I found that the NSW Archives have some records for this institution so a visit there is required.  Also if William left a Will, fingers crossed they will have something on that too.

Thanks again, much appreciated your efforts.  Bonnie

[judb]

Good to see that you have looked as well - so surely with two of us searching without luck she's just not there.  I got very excited when I came across a Constance Lucy b Australia about the right time but she was born in Brisbane and checks out to be another Constance.    

I've tried the same as much as I can with some other indexes but again - no luck.  They just seem to have vanished, and we don't know if they stayed in Sydney or not.  Seems that they were not present at Bertha's wedding. Elizabeth may have died by then or just wasn't in Melbourne - or, as you said before, perhaps Bertha had struck out on her own (or with Walter)

Was there a newspaper death notice for Bertha?  Just thought there may be a clue there 

Judith

[BonnieDownUnder]

Hi Judith,  Yes, they seemed to have just vanished into thin air.  I have had a reply from the Uniting Church in Victoria re Bertha and Walter's nuptials but they don't hold historic church records and it was suggested that I search in the Australiana section of the Victorian State Library.  Problem is that I live 1,000 klms away so was thinking to put up another post if someone would have a look for me, if they should be visiting the Library. 

I have Bertha death certificate and no name of mother listed.  Only a funeral, not death notice, in SMH 05 Oct 1939.

Unfortunately I didn't get time yesterday to search where her father, William Welsh, was buried.
Thanks again. Bonnie

[avance]

No sure if I am sending this note or not.   It is the first time I have used rootschat.
I have some information on the Welsh/Johnston family if anyone would like to contact me.

William Welsh was the printer.    Johnston was the demolisher married to William's daughter Bertha.

The family state that Constance was married to Billy Hughes, Australian Prime Minister.
Take a look at the biography of Hughes online and you will see that he lived a defacto relationship with a woman named Elizabeth Cutts.   It will take some working out but I am now on the right
track.

[BonnieDownUnder]

Hello avance … welcome to Rootschat
Yes, would really be interested in hearing information you have on Welsh/Johnston family and the connection of Constance with Billy Hughes does sound intriguing.  Bonnie