Author Topic: Gallipoli - Battle of the Teacups?  (Read 4424 times)

Offline spades

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Re: Gallipoli - Battle of the Teacups?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 29 April 13 04:56 BST (UK) »
Gallipoli. Untold stories from war correspondent Charles Bean and front line Anzacs.

This book mentioned above focuses on Bean's reportage of the war, with lots of quotes from his writings as well as soldier's accounts and many useful photos.

Spades
ELLERKER - Beverley ERY ENG
HEALEY - IRL?
MURDOCH - Wigtownshire SCT, Otago and Westland NZ
PALING - Nottinghamshire ENG
RILEY - Flamborough; Cottingham; South Dalton ERY, Manitoba CAN, & London ENG
STURTON - Arnold, Nottinghamshire ENG
SUTTRON - All, NRY & DUR ENG
TAYLOR - London ENG
TYLER - London ENG
TERNAN/TIERNAN - Dublin IRL

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Offline Warin

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Re: Gallipoli - Battle of the Teacups?
« Reply #10 on: Monday 29 April 13 05:37 BST (UK) »
The official history is online and available for download as a few PDFs ..
Chapter 30 of volume 2 looks to be what you are after

http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/first_world_war/volume.asp?levelID=67888

Bean was the 'major' editor/writer of this.

Long (Ireland), Mogg (OZ + Ireland), Warner (England)

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Offline majm

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Re: Gallipoli - Battle of the Teacups?
« Reply #11 on: Monday 29 April 13 10:22 BST (UK) »
I wonder if there's information to help to be found in C W Bean's books (Australia's official historian for WWI)

They are available as pdf files   

http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/first_world_war/

Probably looking for Vol II and its index starts at its page 911

Cheers,  JM

The official history is online and available for download as a few PDFs ..
Chapter 30 of volume 2 looks to be what you are after

http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/first_world_war/volume.asp?levelID=67888

Bean was the 'major' editor/writer of this.



I say, I say, I say .... errr ..... Hello, Hello ....is this a friendly SNAP moment  :) cropping up

Good to see that C W Bean's Official History is being acknowledged  :D
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Offline Warin

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Re: Gallipoli - Battle of the Teacups?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 30 April 13 00:15 BST (UK) »
I say, I say, I say .... errr ..... Hello, Hello ....is this a friendly SNAP moment  :) cropping up

 ::) Opps .. missed the mention of the official history bit .. Bean has written quite a lot. And I did not 'see' the official history mention skipping through the multiple Bean mentions. There is some criticism of Bean saying he is biased .. but you get that with a single human. So if you are trying for more than one view on the history of Gallipoli I'd go with Beans official history (it is free) and another book by someone else?
Long (Ireland), Mogg (OZ + Ireland), Warner (England)

Offline TwiggyTree

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Re: Gallipoli - Battle of the Teacups?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 30 April 13 00:23 BST (UK) »
Would be nice to see something from the Kiwi perspective too.
...out of, through, and back from New Zealand to the ends of the Earth

FRYER - MITCHELL - DUKE - WHYTE - McDONALD - TAYLOR - CARPENTER - HARRIS - WILLIAMS - CUNNINGHAME - LUCAS - WHITE - BOTHAM - HOLDAWAY - EYLES - OLSEN - CHASE - TRAILL - BAGGS - HASKINS - EDWARDS - CHING - SHIELDS - POLLARD - HOGAN - SMITH - STANLEY - HALL - ROBERTS - LARKHAM

Offline majm

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Re: Gallipoli - Battle of the Teacups?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 30 April 13 00:36 BST (UK) »
Page 895 of Volume II in the footnotes, Bean writes about the rifles

I am quite quite sure that Bean was writing up the official history for both NZ and Australia.  Bean was there in 1915.  He landed 25 April, 1915.   He was selected ahead of Rupert's father Keith  :) 

http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/records/awm38/3drl606/

Bean was born at Bathurst NSW, in the era when there were very strong moves to form the SEVEN colonies into one, and in fact, at one stage in the 1890s New Zealand was more likely been part of the Federation ahead of Western Australia. 

I would have loved the capital of the Federation to have been in New Zealand  :)

PS, in the Index (I linked earlier) look under NZ  :)
Would be nice to see something from the Kiwi perspective too.


Adding lots of info in Vol II re NZ Exped. Forces, so it is worthwhile looking for names of individual NZ personnel at Anzac in the Vol II index.    I spotted that NZ's Major General Andrew Hamilton RUSSELL has lots of index references in Vol II.    Each volume is hundreds and hundreds of pages with intimate details of battles.   Thanks to Bean's writing, I know the exact time to the minute that one of my WWI cousins was KiA .... his War Service records are digitised thanks to RChatters in NZ. 

Cheers,  JM
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Offline Warin

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Re: Gallipoli - Battle of the Teacups?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 30 April 13 00:48 BST (UK) »
I am quite quite sure that Bean was writing up the official history for both NZ and Australia. 

NO. You'll have kiwis jumping up and down all over the place .. (storms in those tea cups  ;D )

http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-corpus-WH1.html

While I think of Aussies and Kiwis as being family (think brothers) and will cover each other when required, they do have separate views that they will express as and when required.

PS, in the Index (I linked earlier) look under NZ  :)
Would be nice to see something from the Kiwi perspective too.


Cheers,  JM

Let the Kiwis speak for themselves. See my link above for their view/s.
Long (Ireland), Mogg (OZ + Ireland), Warner (England)

Offline majm

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Re: Gallipoli - Battle of the Teacups?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 30 April 13 01:00 BST (UK) »
I have every reason to believe that BEAN believed he was writing the official history of ANZAC for both NZ and Australia.    I have private correspondence in my family papers to show this.  Bean was born Bathurst NSW, and his family were next door neighbours to my lot.

I have added some further info to my most recent post, re the Index details that I mentioned earlier.   Please be very much assured that the CO-OPERATION between NZEF and AIF was extremely close.  There was no reason for it not to be so.

Nearly 100 years later and the two Nations have grown and developed, but please don't use 21st century eyes to look at the Antipodean Colonies in the 1880s and 1890s and right through to say 1948 when Britain finally allowed her Dominions to grant their citizens their own citizenship status.  Until then, we were all simply British Subjects, and not New Zealanders, or Australians in any constitutional or legal sense at all.


Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Send me a PM to seek my express permission to use any information I post. Wait for my reply, do not take for granted you have any authority to copy paste my words.
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Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline spades

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Re: Gallipoli - Battle of the Teacups?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 30 April 13 03:33 BST (UK) »
Hi Twiggy,

I recently finished reading Letters from Gallipoli. New Zealand soldiers write home.
http://www.press.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/notices/template/notice_item.jsp?cid=414244

A fascinating read. Provides impressions from basic training, the journey by troopship, the landings, being wounded, the terrain and the immense difficulties it imposed on the supply of water, ammunition, food and the return of wounded to the beaches, the loss of friends and the letters soldiers wrote to the families of wounded or dead comrades, the evacuation, etc.

Spades
ELLERKER - Beverley ERY ENG
HEALEY - IRL?
MURDOCH - Wigtownshire SCT, Otago and Westland NZ
PALING - Nottinghamshire ENG
RILEY - Flamborough; Cottingham; South Dalton ERY, Manitoba CAN, & London ENG
STURTON - Arnold, Nottinghamshire ENG
SUTTRON - All, NRY & DUR ENG
TAYLOR - London ENG
TYLER - London ENG
TERNAN/TIERNAN - Dublin IRL