Barking up the Wrong "Tree"

[maxcam]

I have over, the past couple of weeks, had cause to return to an area which I thought I had tied up only to find I was completely WRONG. I cannot express my feelings on this forum, I would be thrown out.

During his lifetime William Fleming, born I believe in 1853, who later seems to have changed his name to James also changed his place of birth, according to  census records. One time he said he was born in Dumfries the next time  he was born in Cumbernauld.

I thought I had his parents tied down to Eastwood, Renfrew!
I know this William/James is the same man as his children's records follow through, although to date I can find no record of his marriage to Annie (nee Dunn) who again seems to have changed her place of birth from Pollokshaws to Barrhead, no difference there then.

During their life together I have discovered no less than eight addresses for them ranging from Larkhall to Northumberland.

If I was not already grey this is enough to turn my hair white. Any ideas?

[tidybooks]

Hi Maxcam,

As I already have grey hair, I will see if I can assist. There is a marriage of James Fleming to Ann Dunn in Dalserf, Lanarkshire on 29 Dec 1871, have you discounted this one already? This is on SP and LDS.

Tom

[MonicaL]

What date and place of marriage is showing on the children's birth certs?

This is one of their children's births https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQH9-LQH from what you have.

Where do you have him as William? How have you managed to find who you think are William's parents?

Can you post some of the census entries you have them on - there are a large number of couples with these names so hard to see just from the censuses which is the correct one 

Have you followed them through to their death certs.?

Monica 

[MonicaL]

Is this the 1881 entry you have for the family (and the reference to James/William) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQCR-MQ8

And back in Scotland for 1891:

James Fleming 38 coal miner b. Dumfriee (as transcribed)
Anne Fleming 40 b. Barrhead
Lilly Fleming 15 b. Larkhall
John Fleming 13 b. Larkhall
Willian Fleming 11 b. England
Annie Fleming 9 b. England
James Fleming 6 b. England
Agnes Fleming 3 b. Bothwell

Address: Douglas Park, Bothwell Lanarkshire

And 1901:

James Flenning 46 coal miner b. Cumbernauld
Annie Flenning 48 b. Pollockshaws
William Flenning 21
Annie Flenning 19
James Flenning 15
Agnes Flenning 12
Mary Fleming 10

Address: Hamilton Road Parkhead Rows, Bellshill, Bothwell

[MonicaL]

I know you have all these details, maxcam, but just including to try to give background to anyone trying to help further so it is all on the page.

I would start by looking at the marriage entry that Tom mentions, assuming this matches the dates you have on the birth certs for the Scottish born children.

Comparing marriage and death certs also good if you haven't already to compare parents' names.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Are these Annie's details? From 1851:

Robert Dunn 40 coal miner
Janet Dunn 38
James Dunn 13
Janet Dunn 11
William Dunn 3
Ann Dunn 3 b. Pollockshire Or Eastwood, Renfrewshire
Robert Dunn 2 Months

Address: Chapelton Cambuslang

In 1861, there is a 14 year old Ann Dunn, b. Polockshields, Renfrewshire, working as a domestic servant in Old Monkland which fits for Annie.

1871, there is also a 21 year old Ann Dunn, b. Pollokshaws, Renfrew, working as a domestic servant in Govan.

I would think that Tom's marriage entry would then be the next stage for Ann at the end of that year...

Monica

[maxcam]

Hi there, just managed to stick a casserole in the oven so I have roughly two hours to go!

To date: Thanks Tom I think it's them! Eureka!!!

James's, parents on the wedding cert are John Fleming and Lilias Fleming (Knox). The first two children born to the William/James & Annie I am following, are Lily  & John both born in Larkhall. Quite normal for family names to be carried onto the next generation I believe. Apart from Larkhall no specific address is mentioned. Annie seems to have knocked two years off her age, Vanity?, or perhaps she was not sure as she could only make her mark on the wedding lines.

Annie's parents on the wedding cert are Robert & Janet (nee Cassels) Dunn and these match with the info I have on Annie's death certificate of 20th April 1931. Please, please  tell me you also think it is the same folk, otherwise forget my hair turning white it could even turn red with temper!

Monica, The first two children of William/James & Annie were born in Larkhall which would tie in, so I am going after them later, after the casserole. James seems to have turned into William on 1881 English Census and as the children's dates, names are the same in later years I still think it's the same guy. Can only surmise as to the reasons for the name change.

I have all the census records through to 1911 and it would seem that when they returned to Scotland between 1881 and 1891 he had reverted to James. Another puzzle which this has thrown up is that on the wedding cert in Larkhall maiden name of the mother of the groom, i.e. William/James is given as Lilias Knox whilst on his death cert of  1925 it is stated as Agnes Knox. Could this be because the informant i.e. his son William did not know or perhaps even "His" grandmother had one name but used another.

By the way William/James & Annie Fleming were my paternal Great Grandparents, so once again plodding on. Now I really should peel some potatoes.

Don't know what I would do without you all

[Sharon01]

Hi,

These may help.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQX1-ZV2

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ83-DQ4

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ83-28N

Sharon

[Sharon01]

Also from family search are

John 1861, Bothwell
Andrew 1862 Bothwell

Sharon