1851 Census Lookup Please!

[MonicaL]

Karen, specific to your comments in your last posts:

English (Welsh/Irish too) marriage certs only include father's name. It is only Scottish marriage certs that also include mother's full name.

Regarding Elizabeth's birth or christinening entry, not seeing anything so far unfortunately. Unlike England where official registration began through 1837, in Scotland official reg began from 1855. To try and find details before this in Scotland, you are reliant on the Old Parish Registers (OPRs) which refer to entries relating to the established Church of Scotland, ie presbyterian.

In addition, many registers have been lost over time. Also worth remembering that before statutory registration, only about a third of events would be registered for all sorts of reasons...including the fact that it cost money to register these events and many families simply didn't.

Karen, we are hopefully adding to what you already have, although we may still not find key pieces of info given we are working for Elizabeth pre 1855 and then the move to England  for info purposes of course!

Monica

[MonicaL]

...I think Thomas remained in Scotland as I THINK I found him in the 1891 census (on his own) aged 85 at 85 Pittencrieff Street (shown as a Retired Wright) - (listed as Thomas Dye).

In 1881 he is lodging with the Burgess family at 5 Pattison Street, and is showing as "Formerly Joiner" (which would fit).  I haven't found him in the 1871 census, but in 1861 he's at Relief Street with wife Jane, children Margaret, Helen and Elizabeth and a grandson called John Baird born 1860 (I wonder if John Baird could be the son of the Mary Ann we didn't know much about).

Karen, I think you have likely found the right entries for Thomas in 1881 and 1891. He died in 1891 it seems, see below:

[MonicaL]

What this DC tells us is that Mary Gillespie still showed potentially as Thomas' wife at the time of his death. He died in the Poorhouse in Dunfermline on 15 December. You had him on census for 1891 here:

Thomas Dye 85, Wright Retired b. Dunfermline, Fife
Address: 85 Pittencrieff St, Dunfermline

The Poorhouse reference might simply mean he was under hospital care there, rather than in receipt of poor relief and an inmate there. Many Poor Houses had adjoining hospital facilities for those in need. Don't think there may be any records available to help you there further though - www.workhouses.org.uk/Dunfermline/  Someone may be able to help further re records from there.

What this would say to me so far....Thomas may not have married Jane Cruickshanks, although she showed as wife in later documents. However, we do not know who Elizabeth's mother was so far, Mary Gillispie or Jane Cruickshanks. We think from Helen Dey's marriage at least, that her mother was Mary Gillespie as showing on her marriage cert in 1865. Helen seems to have named her two first born daughters after mother and then Jane Cruickshanks it seems.... A puzzle for Elizabeth...to add to what you had!

Monica

[kpnut]

Hi Monica

Thanks so much for the death details.  I'm a bit confused that his mother is showing as a Magdalene Reid, and on the 1851 census his mother was showing as Marie and on the 1841 census showing as Masey, (however, I suppose they could be shortened names for Magdalene) WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Also, if I have the right one for 1891 census, can't understand why he is showing as "Wright Retired" where on this death form he is still showing as "Joiner".  Any thoughts?

Is there any way that you could also email me with the complete form for the death?  Hope you don't mind.

Thanks a lot
Karen

[kpnut]

LOL - thanks Monica

Our messages crossed.  Just got the email from you with the death form.

Thanks
Karen

[kpnut]

Hi Monica

You've been a tremendous help to me.  Yes I did get your email thank you!! with the attachments.

If Jean Dye died in 1868 and it says she was aged 58 (would make her born in 1810), however, all the info you've attatched to me, appears to match, because the names of her parents show as Alexander Cruickshanks and Ann Millar as her parents and that's what shows on the birth reference you show for her, so I presume that maybe she had forgotten her correct age when she died, because that reference shows and birth and baptism as 1806.

I REALLY can't thank you enough for all the help you've given me so far.

I'm thinking about whether or not to start adding all this info to my Ancestry family tree and see if any other matches come up.  However, I don't know who to put as Elizabeth's mother (Mary or Jean).

You mentioned in your previous post that at least four children show for this couple.  See below, but then nothing is listed.  Do you have the names that are listed?

I'm putting all the info together that we have so far (again, I can't believe how helpful you've been).  Yes, I know, as Elizabeth wasn't born until about 1849-1851 (she comes BEFORE the 1855 start date).  What a shame.

I am of the opinion that Thomas Dye died AFTER 1891 and I presume he was still in Scotland.  I have (what I think is possibly the right Thomas Dye in the 1891 census aged 85 years at 85 Pittencrieff Street.  Only problem is that he's showing as a Wright Retired - not a Joiner or retired Joiner).

I need to try to find a death reference for him as well now.

Regards
Karen

[MonicaL]

Multiple messaging going on...sorry 

You are happy with wright, joiner etc as same occupation?

Re his mother, Maisie, Marie etc...lots of variants coming up for that not surprisingly. On Family search, can't see Thomas' entry, but some likely siblings here:

Helen Dey 1795 - mother Mause Reid https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY98-KYC
Janet Day 1797 - mother Maas Reid https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTFV-5BL
Alexander Dey 1799 - mother Mause Reid https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYW2-HW5... likely died young?
Alexander Day 1810 - mother Max Reid https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYVD-Q62

Monica

[MonicaL]

Karen, see reply 28 above. Thomas Day died a few months after the 1891 census date I think, in December 1891. Hopefully you have his DC now, which then connects with the possible siblings and references to his mother's variable name above!

Monica

[MonicaL]

Wright - Joiner or carpenter www.scotsfamily.com/occupations.htm