Joseph Ralph WATSON

[Westwood21]

Hi Scotiagirl,

I have no documentary proof regarding the name of my Joseph's mother, only the father (Joseph Snr) who appears on Ellis and Joseph's marriage certificate.  All I can tell you is that I remember being told on more than one occasion that we were related to the Sandersons. 
However...I've just spent a long time searching through Elllis's old diaries and photograph albums.  I think this is a eureka moment.  I've just found a faded photo of a mother and three children sitting on the grass with a large house in the background.  Ellis has written below it "Joey, Dolly, Mrs Watson, Enid [at] Gardham".  Dolly must surely be Dorothy.
There's also a photo "Joey, Skidder, Ellis [at] Leven 1909".
Joey appears (fondly!) in the 1903 diary and there's a mention of Mrs Watson (which of course doesn't help me with proof of her being Lavinia Sanderson).  No mention of Mr Watson that I can see anywhere.  Just conjecture but had the father done a runner by then and that could be why Ellis's family were so concerned about the liaison?  Oh, can't be that because of course he witnessed the marriage in 1904.
I'm afraid I'm very short of time just now and there's so much to re-read and research.  I'll keep going.  I'm short on documentation but not bad on primary source material (written anecdotes).
What do you reckon, Scotiagirl - are we related?!!!
   

[Westwood21]

Sorry, Heywood, not meaning to ignore you - just new to this chatroom stuff and all the workings and etiquette. My Joseph was definitely born in 1883 which is proved by the aforementioned marriage certificate to Ellis Boyes.  I don't know the ins and outs of all this excellent research you are all doing through the archives, but Beverley in my book always has three 'e's in it.  Would that make any difference to the search input?  Doubt it.
Sincere thanks to one and all.  I've had a lifetime of unanswered questions up until a few days ago to having quite a good handle on the mysteries of what happened to my forebears.  The finer details would be wonderful, but if we never get there, you've given me so many lines to ponder upon and I'm so grateful. 

[scotiagirl]

Hi westwood21.

It's looking more and more like we are related.  I too have read references (in a family history put together by the sister of Joseph's (second) wife Beulah Bahnsen) that Joseph had a drinking problem. In fact, the story goes that Joseph's affluent parents sent him to Canada when he was 21 hoping that in a new country he would overcome his addiction to alcohol.  I wouldn't put too much store in the age of 21 if it doesn't fit the timeline.  I've come across several discrepancies in the family history so far already.  Still, tt seems Joseph might have made several trips to Canada.  I didn't see anything in his WW1 service record that would make me suspect that he had a drinking problem but so be it.  You mentioned that the drinking problem of the mother was visited on the son.  Are you saying that Lavinia had a drinking problem?  Did you know that Beulah Bahnsen collected all the letters that Joseph Watson aka Ralph Beverly Watson wrote home from the war and had them published in a book called "Letters of a Canadian Stretcher Bearer"?  I would love to get a copy of the photo of Joey, Ellis and the two children as well as Joey and Ellis's marriage certificate.  And maybe the photo of Joey, Dolly, Mrs. Watson and Enid at Gardham.  If you'd like to do that, I could send you a personal message (I haven't done that yet on this board but I can try) and maybe we could exchange email addresses.  It sounds like you have a veritable treasure trove of material there.  Well, that's all for me for now.  Must fly.

[heywood]

I didn't feel that I was being ignored.
 I am glad that all seems to be sorted re the identity and hope that sometime, you will both conclude the search with finding Mr Watson.
There may be some truth in that date of death but where in the world?

Best wishes to you both 

[bendywendy]

When I embarked upon the request for Watson information a few years ago by Broadgate I never imagined what we would have found and how one family can have so many twists n turns n skeletons.

Any chance you can upload some photographs to both this site and the other Watson thread please.

I still believe Joseph is the same person as Joseph Ralph / Ralph / Ralph Beverly etc., as a point of interest regarding how to spell Beverley, here in Yorkshire, which is pronounced Yorksha, Beverley is pronounced Bev-ley or Bev-ler in a more broader accent (my dad calls it this) so this could be how Joseph sounded it and thus it was written this way, maybe this is yet another clue to this being the same person as only a local Yorksha person would shorten it.

bendywendy

[Westwood21]

Apologies, folks, for the delay in getting back to you.  Life's gone into overdrive and I just had to work today.

Heywood -
Well, we seem to have settled on his identity but, unless I've missed something, I don't think we ever found out who Janet Watson was in your post of 27 April.  You said RBW seemed to have a wife of that name in 1930!  Why am I not surprised?!  If that's true, then he certainly didn't die around 1920 in Vancouver....  My hunch is that he was giving everyone the slip again.  He's got form on that.  Of course I may have missed something because I only found this excellent forum a few days ago and I haven't had time to comb through the other Watson thread.
Again, forgive me if you've already covered this but there was a time when you were all querying Joseph's whereabouts in 1901.  I'm guessing at least one of you spotted that he was in South Africa with his horse (Boer War) together with Henry Samman!  I found a faded photo of the horse called something beginning with Gar...  (a rip in the page).  Somewhere I have a photo of Harry's (Henry's) horse called Charlie.  I digress...  They were in the Imperial Yeomanry:
Joseph Watson 25813 Trooper 11th Company 3rd Battalion
Henry Samman 25804 Trooper 11th Company 3rd Battalion
Anyway, I'm sure you all knew that.  I confess I was amazed they were together given what I know in hindsight.
Thanks so much for everything, Heywood
Westwood

Hi scotiagirl,
Well, well, well!
Re the drinking problem emanating from Lavinia, all I can say is that I have an extract of a letter here written in later years by my great aunt Jessie (a formidable character and Ellis's youngest sister) to my mother Joan (Joseph's daughter) explaining a few things about Joey (because of course there was a complete blackout of information about her father, poor thing).  I will transcribe it for you in due course.
I have another letter from someone called Ernest (haven't managed to track him down so far) written to Ellis after Joey had walked out on her and the children encouraging her to divorce "the scamp" and praising her for being so brave and stoical (my words because I haven't got it in front of me just now) throughout everything that Joey had put her through.  Frustratingly he doesn't elaborate because obviously both of them know what he is talking about.
I am thrilled to hear about Beulah's book.  On a Google search the author is given as R.A.L.  Is this the correct book?
Re the photographs, unfortunately they are so very faded that I don't think they will scan successfully.  I myself can't really see much detail - they are over one hundred years old and have moved house goodness knows how many times.  Also they have escaped my grandmother's (Ellis) purge of anything and everything to do with Joey!  The only reason I know who the people are is that Ellis has written the details below the photographs in happier times.  Anyway, I will certainly give it a go.  There's the odd photograph of Joey as a young man that has also escaped.  I might be more successful there.  I'll try.  Joey and Ellis's marriage certificate should be fine but it's too big for my scanner so might have to come in two halves!
You can certainly have my personal email address if you send me a personal message.   Everyone knows who I am anyway!!!
I'll work on all the above over the weekend, time allowing.
Do, somebody, tell me who Janet Watson is?!!!
Bye for now.

Hi bendywendy,

Re the photographs, I refer you to my post to scotiagirl.  I'll do my very best.
Personally, I am convinced that Joseph Watson and Ralph Beverl(e)y Watson are one and the same person.  I do still think, however, that he must have spelt Beverley with a second 'e'.  All his family came from there and also the one he first married into.  Forgive me if I am being a bit pedantic.... 

I am Yorkshire born and bred and you should probably have guessed where I come from with the moniker Westwood!!  I call it Bev by the way!  I don't live there any more but it is written through me like a stick of Bridlington rock, as they say, as it clearly was through our naughty Joseph/Ralph Beverley.
Thanks so much for all your hard work and...Eh oop (as my family infuriatingly say to me!)

Westwood
 

[heywood]

No idea re Janet Watson.  There are these entries on London electoral roll for a Ralph Beverley Watson

1923
18  Old Town, Wandsworth North street
Mrs Alice Stacey   Occupation qualification
Mr Ralph Beverley Watson residence qualification

1924 same address
Same people plus Mrs Alice Mantle

1930
8 Gambetta Street Battersea

Ralph ....
Janet Watson qualification through husband's occupation

Is this him though?

[Westwood21]

Oh wow!  Surely it's got to be.  Trouble is I don't know how to follow these leads that many of you have been so clever at doing (which is why I have never got anywhere with tracking down this elusive grandfather.  I was thrilled when I managed to get a copy of his marriage certificate to Ellis from Kew, I think.  I am so muddled with what I have and haven't found here in boxes, but I think I did find the original - but now where is it....?!!)  I am fascinated anew.  Oh nooooooo!
I have a daughter living in Battersea.  This man is following me around.
Thanks so much for this.  I'll see if I can work out how to take your info further.
Westwood

[Westwood21]

I just want to add this.  If he was supposed to have 'died' around 1920 in Canada, it seems perfectly plausible to me that he needed to do another runner and if it was back to England, then the timings of Heywood's findings of him living in Wandsworth/Battersea are perfectly feasible.
Did we ever find out where it was that he probably did die in 1957?
Westwood