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Author Topic: MARDELL & ROBERTS  (Read 2544 times)

Offline [Ray]

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Re: MARDELL & ROBERTS
« Reply #9 on: Friday 26 September 14 15:45 BST (UK) »
The family I found 1841 (mentioned on the other thread) may not be relevant at all.
They are still together in Eaton Place in 1851, plus more recent children, with JohnR, minus ElizR

All of the information about the family you are talking about IS relevant to "both" threads
By posting ALL of the known information, in a single place, you save possible wasted duplication of time/effort spent by people wishing to help you.


Ray
"The wise man knows how little he knows, the foolish man does not". My Grandfather & Father.

"You can’t give kindness away.  It keeps coming back". Mark Twain (?).

Offline Greaves

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Re: MARDELL & ROBERTS
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 04 November 14 14:28 GMT (UK) »
I am re-opening this thread, in the hope of further guidance, as I seem to be making very little progress. To summarise the findings so far:

1. James Mardell (1807-1873) was my 3x Great Grandfather.
2. He and his wife Mary had 11 children. On the birth certificates for the 4th child (Emma) and the following children, Mary's maiden name is given as Roberts.
3. Mary's maiden name being Roberts is further strengthened by the presence of an elderly gentleman  named John Roberts in the household in the 1841 and 1851 censuses. John was born c1776 in Bedfordshire.
4. I can find no marriage between James Mardell and Mary Roberts.
5. There is, however, a marriage between James Mardell and Mary Ann Bird in Edmonton on 6 June 1830. Mary Ann is registered as a Spinster.
6. I can find no death certificate for a Mary Ann Mardell in the relevant period.
7. A John Roberts married a Ann Bird in Enfield in Sep 1824. He was a widower and she a widow.
8. i can find no baptism for a Mary Roberts in the relevant area.
9. There is a baptism for a Mary Ann Bird April 1814 in Edmonton. Father is John Bird (soldier) and mother is Ann.

Help with answering the following questions would be welcomed, as would suggestions for where to look next:

Q1. Was Mary (Ann) born a Bird but brought up as a Roberts, seeing John Roberts as her father?
Q2. Did either James or Mary have an earlier marriage? I can find no obvious evidence.
Q3. Were the first three children born to Mary Ann Bird? Possible as the 1st son is named James after the father and the 1st daughter Mary Ann.

Offline vronlady

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Re: MARDELL & ROBERTS
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 04 November 14 14:49 GMT (UK) »
the 1841 census also has Elizabeth Roberts aged 20 born in county underneath john Roberts  so a sister to Mary?? hae you traced her through the census.

Offline vronlady

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Re: MARDELL & ROBERTS
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 04 November 14 14:53 GMT (UK) »
she would appear to marry in 1847

Elizabeth Roberts and  Edward William Thomas   
24 May 1847
St John the Evangelist, Lambeth

Father Name:John Roberts (porter)
Spouse Father:Charles Thomas

Offline Greaves

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Re: MARDELL & ROBERTS
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 04 November 14 15:15 GMT (UK) »
Yes I have tried without any luck, though now knowing her married name may help!

I have also searched for the death of John Roberts without much success. He does not appear to have died in Edmonton between 1851 and 1861, as I would have expected.

P.S. Having looked at a few family trees on Ancestry, I'm not sure that this is the right Elizabeth. Hard to know for sure. I would really like to see a death certificate for John, just to see where he died and who reported the death, which might at least confirm the relationship between Mary and him.

Offline Lily M

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Re: MARDELL & ROBERTS
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 04 November 14 16:46 GMT (UK) »
An Eliza Roberts was baptised in Edmonton, 1818, with parents John and Ann.  My guess would be the same as it was back in September.

My theory: 

Mary Ann Bird bap. Edmonton with parents John and Ann Bird, was your Mary, and married James Mardell in 1830, using her original surname.  Although she was brought up using the name Roberts. Father John was a soldier at the time, and was probably the true father of Mary Ann.  Down as Bird, instead of Roberts,for the baptism to make the child appear to be legitimate.

It would make sense for her to use the name Roberts on her children's birth certificates.  Why announce, in those times, that you were born before your parents married.

Just my thoughts

As a soldier at that time, he may have been unable to stay long enough to arrange a marriage.  But when the Napolionic Wars ended in 1815 he was able to settle down.

So John Roberts married Ann Bird in 1816.  They then had Eliza in 1818.

Offline Greaves

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Re: MARDELL & ROBERTS
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 05 November 14 14:43 GMT (UK) »
Sorry -  I'm still confused. I thought John Roberts (widower) m Ann Bird (widow) in 1824.

I thought that both John Roberts and Ann Bird had previous marriages. Are you suggesting that John Bird and John Roberts one and the same?

Offline Lily M

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Re: MARDELL & ROBERTS
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 05 November 14 17:31 GMT (UK) »
I'm so sorry Greaves.  I'm even more confused than you, because I wrote that and have no idea where I got the 1816 marriage from.   ???

I'll take another look later.   Meantime, please ignore everything I wrote.

Sorry again for confusing you further, and for wasting your time.
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