Origins of Ellen Margaretta Honey (b. April 1845, Devenport)

[NNR]

Sorry, my typo on his birth year! Buckland and Devenport are a fair way apart - and the assumed dobs of both men are around 16 years apart, which still gives me some niggling doubts about this connection!

[avm228]

We know there is a connection (given that Ellen is enumerated in 1861 as his niece) but, as you say, not with any certainty what the connection was.  Niece was often used outside the precise uncle-niece relationship we think of.

John could have been e.g. a cousin of Ellen's father Thomas. 

The 1830 naval record is useful in that it gives a Devonport birthplace for Thomas.

[NNR]

Perhaps indeed a cousin, but seems likely they were close given that John witnessesThomas' marriage.

He could be an uncle of Thomas' I suppose.

[avm228]

He could be an uncle of Thomas' I suppose.

Yes, though if the baptism for Thomas (son of John) is correct, then less likely that he'd also have an uncle John.

[NNR]

This comes from replying on the walk to my car! I fail to think things through. Stupid!

However, anyone reading the ship's muster will have noticed a Samuel Honey, too. I've had rather more luck here. He was born around 1823 according to the ship's muster, so I started there.
 
In this time period, we have births for various Samuel Honeys in Kilkhampton (1819), Prescot (1818), Norfolk (1826) and Devenport (1822). I thought this was the best one to go with due to the Devonport connection of the other Mr. Honey. The baptism of this "Samuel Pope Honey" took place in December 1822 in Devenport and was nonconformist. His parents were a William and Elizabeth Honey, and his apparent sister was Elizabeth, who was born in April 1818 and baptised that August at Morrice St. Wesleyan Church in Devenport.
 
An 1841 census shows William ("a stone...something") and Elizabeth, both aged 40 at 13 Wellington Street in Devenport. An Ellen...Santhly? aged 3 also resides there.
 
At the time the census was taken, Samuel can be located at the Seaman's Hospital Ship Dreadnought, docked at Greenwich. He was a "P. Ableman" according to the census. He would be dead in a foreign continent by the time of the next census.
 
I suppose the question I'm looking to answer is whether Samuel's father was Thomas and John's brother or not? There were two brothers - Hartnells - serving on Franklin's ships, and it would be interesting to find another familial connection among the men. Could Thomas and Samuel have been Uncle and Nephew?

[ciderdrinker]

Good Morning
You could well be right and Samuel Pope Honey was Thomas's nephew.
John and Sarah Honey also had a son  William 4.10.1794 bapt 16.11.1794 at Stoke Dameral .
As you know the 1841 census ages are rounded down up to 5 years so that could fit.
They also had the following at S/D
Richard 7.6/28.7.1787
Betsey 12.10.1788/13.4.1789
Richard 10.4.1791
Henry 11.11.1796/7.10.1797
Betsey Culing Honey 3.3.1801
John  would fit in quite nicely at 1785 and their oldest son baptised perhaps in his mother's parish.Women often went home to be with their mother for the birth of their first child.
There is a marriage of a John Pike Honey to a Sarah Warrin 1783 on Devon records at Familysearch but the exact details are only available at a Family History centre.

Richard is also interesting as the 1841 census in Cherry Gardens Stoke Dameral has a Margaret Honey age 30 living next door to a Richard Honey age 45 shipwright ,and his family,on latter censuses born 1791 Devonport.
Just a thought ,perhaps another brother.
Ciderdrinker

[NNR]

Very interesting, thank you! Is Thomas' baptism to John and Sarah the last one they appear to have?

Is there a marriage record available for John and Sarah? Presumably at Buckland, though.

Finally, the Margaret Honey in 1841 - does she have (likely) family listed?

Many thanks for this - it all seems to be falling into place!

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
No I'm afraid that Margaret Honey in 1841 is on her own.I can't see William or Thomas age about 3.
The entry is
Richard Honey 45 shipwright y
Ann 30 y
Mary Ann 7 y
William 6 y
Richard 4 y
Joseph 2m y
Mary Cotterill 75 y
dash
Mary Ann Lobb?15  f s y(female servant)
dash
Margaret Honey  30 y
Then it goes onto a Isiah Pretty

A possible marriage for John Pike Honey to a Sarah Warrin 1783 on Familysearch under Devon records but the details are only available at a Family History centre which is a pain.
Sorry
Ps just had a look at FindMyPast and it seems the marriage is on there as John Pike Honey at Plymouth St Charles.Also a birth of a John honey in 1785 at Plymouth Old Tabernacles so perhaps born BM and baptised Plymouth
Again I haven't got a sub but some one must have.
Ciderdrinker

[NNR]

Thanks for the details from the census.

"A possible marriage for John Pike Honey to a Sarah Warrin 1783 on Familysearch under Devon records but the details are only available at a Family History centre which is a pain." - still useful to have the year, though. Thank you!

And if anyone does have a sub, more detail would be great to have!!