Can't find birth or marriage

[heywood]

Ambly,

That had crossed my mind earlier but I hadn't followed up- very interesting.

Heywood

[heywood]

There is a marriage 1882 Abergavenny where an Ellen Dundon marries either James Clear or George Power.

1901 has Ellen Clara /Clare 53 yrs widow born Chepstow living in a Court off Tudor Street, Abergavenny.

[avm228]

There is a marriage 1882 Abergavenny where an Ellen Dundon marries either James Clear or George Power.

Ellen Dundon 32 married James Cleare 34 at St Mary Abergavenny, 10 Apr 1882.

[heywood]

I thought so.
They are in Bedwellty in 1891. Her birthplace is given as Abergavenny.

[AMBLY]

I had just spotted that marriage  and the 1891 too  . 

Very interesting also in light of the suggested surname of Jeremiah's mother as "CLEARY"!

Bedwelty  Monmouthshire in 1891, both age 40 - she's born Abergavenny. He's a Stoker, b Ireland. No Children with them, just a couple of adult Boarders.
RG12 -Piece 4355 /Folio 22 /Pg1

All in all it does looks very promising that they might have been cousins.  Perhaps never actually married (nor had any children)?  And if that's the case and it's the right Ellen in 1881 using her maiden name and unmarried status, Jeremiah could still be either the one who died 1879  - or the one in the Asylum in 1881 stated as married (I think)  ; who was in and out of the institution between Nov 1879 and Dec 1882 at least.

Cheers
AMBLY

[lisalucie]

Wow you guys thank you!! I need to check where I've got ellen Dundon in 1871 but I think you may be on to something!!

Just to recap...ellen Dundon was the daughter of MY ellen kirby (married richard Dundon and then james Carter). Jeremiah was the son of Ellen's brother John kirby and julia cleary (or whatever variant she's goin by). That makes Ellen and jeremiah cousins. Are we on the same lines that Ellen cerbey and jeremiah cerbey (as transcribes in 1871) are the above Ellen Dundon and Jeremiah kirby???

Hang on ive gotta go check me records now...

[heywood]

That's what we have.
Now are you sure that Ellen and John are brother and sister? I know they are together in 1851 and I recall seeing some other member of Ellen's family with one of the sisters- forgotten the details now.

[lisalucie]

...ok just checked quickly and Ellen Dundon is with her Mom and step Dad and family in 1861 (Abergavenny) and I hadn't yet located her in 1871!!! Ohhh the plot thickens!

If they were just living as man and wife in 1871 then  they would probably have put married wouldn't they?

Its certainly a possibilty that Ellen Dundon/Cleary/Clare is the same woman and possibly Jeremiah changed between James and Jeremiah (what do u reckon?) - maybe if he was in and out of institutions to avoid stuff 

Ive got to go to work now but will copy the newspaper report from the 1870s about Ellen Dundon (some fight with her brothers girlfriend which included her mom too) and thats the peice that mentions Jeremiah Kirby and u can see if you can see anything else init .... thanks again guys x

[lisalucie]

That's what we have.
Now are you sure that Ellen and John are brother and sister? I know they are together in 1851 and I recall seeing some other member of Ellen's family with one of the sisters- forgotten the details now.

I haven't got their birth certs however in 1891 (I think) Ellen has with her her nephew wh is Daniel Kirby (Johns lad)...that added to them lodging together in 1851 x