The Children of James Gilbert

[Greaves]

Many thanks - having trouble downloading the images, but this is definitely him. Two younger brothers: James and Alfred. Three sisters: Emma, Harriet and Alice.

This certainly explains his absences from the various censuses.

[Greaves]

We seem to have satisfactorily explained both Emma and (James) William, by no means everything, but enough to have some idea of their lives. I suppose the only thing we don't know is whether William married. As I said earlier there is a marriage for a James William Gilbert in Hackney, but this is definitely not my relative.

So this just leaves Alice as the really outstanding problem. I have just looked on FreeBMD and there are 398 females named Alice born between Q1 1874 and Q4 1877!!!

There are no Gilberts. Only three of the others look possible:

Alice Maria MADELL (Q3 1876 Edmonton 3a 240)
Alice Maud MARDELL (Q1 1876 Edmonton 3a 247)
Alice MARDELL (Q3 1876 Edmonton 3a 218)

There is an Alice M Mardell living with her parents James and Hannah in C1881 and C1891.

[Greaves]

I have just realised having looked at my notes that Alice Maud Mardell b 6 Dec 1875 to James Mardell and Hannah Oliphant is also a relative of mine. Her father James was Harriet's eldest brother, so Alice Maud Mardell and Alice Gilbert were cousins.

This is interesting as an earlier contribution had Alice Maud dying aged 9, whereas in fact she went on to marry in 1902 to James Heggie and died in 1972 in Bishops stortford aged 96.

So with regards to the three Alice's above.

Alice Maria MADELL (Q3 1876 Edmonton 3a 240) baptised 12 May 1878, parents Benjamin & Louisa Elizabeth
Alice Maud MARDELL (Q1 1876 Edmonton 3a 247) - not Alice Gilbert, her cousin
Alice MARDELL (Q3 1876 Edmonton 3a 218) - baptised 3 Sep 1876, parents Alfred & Olive

So all three possibles now seem to have been ruled out.

Not clear where the Alice Maud who died aged 9 fits in the picture.

[heywood]

Have you looked in the overseas (including army) deaths for James William?  Searchable on Findmypast.

CWGC seems to have the 12 July 1918 casualty as TW Gilbert in one of its attached records, and as W Gilbert in others.

www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/52067/GILBERT,%20W

This is the same one I quoted earlier. Sadly, there are no details on the CWGC site to show whether it is William or not. Do the other records give information re place of birth etc.

[Greaves]

The attestation papers of 1889 when he joined the Royal Artillery are definitely for the correct William, as the next-of-kin section correctly names his two brothers and three sisters. Also the age of 19 yrs 2m and place of birth fit the known facts. These also explain his absence from some of the censuses - certainly the 1891 and 1901 censuses. The 1911 census is another matter.

I am now reasonably happy with both Emma and William, but utterly confused about Alice. As I just can't find her anywhere.

The regimental numbers on the 1889 papers (75539)and the 1918 papers (36324) are different, but I suppose they would be if he re-enlisted.

[heywood]

I'm not sure about the number either but glad that you have found him.
Re Alice it is difficult. It does look as though she is illegitimate.  She may have been registered in her father's name but it didn't work out and Harriet retained the Gilbert name.
There is a male boarder with them - Clark - but he may just be that and  is probably not the father.
There may be a baptism if there was access to local records.

[Greaves]

According to freebmd, here are two possible Alice Clark's born in Edmonton - Q3 1874 and Q3 1876.

[Greaves]

I am refreshing this thread, as I now think after further research that it may contain some mistakes. The biggest problem is the two middle brothers James William (often referred to as plain William) and James.

As far as I know, James William was born in 1868 in Edmonton (Q1 1868 Edmonton 3a 178). He joined the army in November 1889, his number being 75539. I also believe - but am not sure - that he re-enlisted during WW1. There is a death of a William Gilbert (number 36324) recorded for 12 July 1918, which I always thought was him, but I am now beginning to have real doubts. Also as far as I know, he did not marry. but again this is not certain.

His brother James was born in 1871 in Edmonton (Q3 1871 Edmonton 3a 178). He would have appeared to have married Mary Elizabeth Llewellin in 1893 in Edmonton (Q3 1893 Edmonton 3a 547). On the certificate his age is given as 24, which would related to a DOB of 1869, which would seem more appropriate for his brother (James) William. There is a possible death for 1933 in Edmonton (Q3 1933 Edmonton 3a 518).

Moreover, in the 1911 census, James and Mary Elizabeth Gilbert are living with their children in Tottenham, with him working as a stoker in the local gasworks. His age is given as 42 and hers as 36. Once again, this age is consistent with a DOB of 1869.

I am now very confused about these two brothers. Am I mixing them up? Is there any way of sorting them out, short of ordering tens of BMD certificates?

[Greaves]

Further, to my last post, I am still very confused about the two brothers James William and James. I would welcome any help in sorting them out.

To add to my problems, I now have problems with their younger brother Alfred James. Up until recently I thought that he had joined the Somerset Light Infantry, married Clara in 1910 in Taunton and eventually died in Taunton in 1932. However, the death certificate for the person who died in March 1932 in Taunton reveals that his name was Alfred George rather than Alfred James, though the age of 59 is in line with his known birth of 12 August 1873.

I am also still a long way from finding the birth of Alice Gilbert/Mardell/Clark - see earlier postings.

As I have said, any help would be gratefully received.