Unrecorded VC holder.

[Mike in Cumbria]

The whole story doesn't ring true. Why would the Germans plan to shoot 25 at dawn? How did they move the guns ( and ammunition)? Were the horses standing there patiently?

Imber

That doesn't sound at all true. Nor does the fact that the Germans relieved them of all their weapons "except their jack knives" Why would they tell them they were to be shot at dawn but leave them with their knives?

I do wonder if the court martial was because the reports of his fantasy had come to light.

[Flattybasher9]

There were only 8 forfietures, and he was not one of them.

Regards 

Malky

Never mind, it's been a good research exercise.

[grandarog]

Looks more and more as if my theory of a giant Porkie Pie has been correct all along.
The addition of the award of the DIstinguished Conduct Medal at a later date reported in the Canadian Paper sugests press hype.
Does anyone have access to Court Martial transcripts of the time as that would probably solve the mystery.
If the story is fact not fiction, it must have been recorded in trench diaries at the time . I am sure,no way would a long period of shelling and a final Cavalry advance not be recorded.

[crisane]

On Wikipedia for the Canadian Victoria Cross it says (heading Criteria) " and, unlike its British counterpart, may be revoked.[14] The ref 14 says the original source is dated 2008

Also Wikipedia
Victoria Cross forfeitures
"The original Royal Warrant involved an expulsion clause that allowed for a recipient's name to be erased from the official register in certain wholly discreditable circumstances and his pension cancelled.[64] King George V felt very strongly that the decoration should never be forfeited and in a letter from his Private Secretary, Lord Stamfordham, on 26 July 1920, his views are forcibly expressed:
The King feels so strongly that, no matter the crime committed by anyone on whom the VC has been conferred, the decoration should not be forfeited. Even were a VC to be sentenced to be hanged for murder, he should be allowed to wear his VC on the scaffold.[29]
The power to cancel and restore awards is still included in the Victoria Cross warrant but none has been forfeited since 1908.[29] reference 29 is "Posthumous VCs". National Army Museum. Retrieved 16 June 2007

[ShaunJ]

a giant Porkie Pie

Agreed. I think he may have been a teller of tall tales.

Oddly, the army file doesn't mention his hospitalisation in December 1914. When he was in Netley in February 1915 (NYD - not yet diagnosed - and flat foot) the first medical comment is "no obvious sign of mental derangement".

[grandarog]

ShaunJ ,Thanks for that input .can i ask where the info came from.

[ShaunJ]

.can i ask where the info came from.

It's on his army file which is viewable on both FindMyPast and Ancestry

FindMyPast link : http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f007273992%2f00404&parentid=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f7273992%2f27%2f389 (and see previous image)

On Ancestry it is images 1533 and 1534

[Flattybasher9]

It looks like that the comment "no obvious sign of mental derangement" may relate to the V.C. story having caught up with him.

Regards

Malky

[grandarog]

Thanks ShaunJ I had that .I hadn't worked out that that  the  squiggle in the left column was Netley.
It would be wonderful if anybody could check the District Court Martial Transcripts for 18 December 1917 when he was sentenced to demotion and one years hard labour ,commuted to Detention and later repealed ,so he could be sent back to the front in France.
As far as I can work out the transcript should be in WO 86 at Kew.They are not on line.