Thomas Sunter/Clementina Glasgow/Brechin Scotland 1848

[Scottleneveu]

That's lovely, thank you for replying

Scott

[Scottleneveu]

Hello all 

The marriage certificate arrived today and this is what it said....

On the 13th of September, 1871, Thomas Sunter Shaw (23) married Elizabeth Harris Paterson (19) he was a Bachelor and she was a Spinster. Thomas was a seaman, residence at the time says something like Barracks, Berwick. The fathers name for Thomas is Thomas Shaw (joiner) and for Elizabeth it's David Paterson (soldier) 

I hope to hear from you,

Scott

[Forfarian]

Well, that looks pretty convincing to me. Everything else seems to match, so I reckon that your Thomas Sunter told the minister or registrar in Berwick-upon-Tweed that his father was Thomas Shaw, joiner.

The 1851 lists a 23-year-old joiner named Thomas Shaw who has to be a candidate for the father of Thomas Sunter. This Thomas was born in Cumbernauld, and is living at Coats, Old Monkland, with his brothers Robert, 37; James, 39; George, 31; Alexander, 20.

They look like the sons of George Shaw and Mary Watson: James b 1811, Robert b 1813, George b 1819, Thomas b 1825; Alexander b 1830. Thomas would have been 25, not 23, on the date of the 1851 census, but that's a not unusual error.

So I think you could pencil in this Thomas as a possible father for your Thomas Sunter, and look for corroborating evidence, such as something in the Kirk Session records, though that won't be easy, especially if they were living in Glasgow when Thomas Sunter was conceived.

[Scottleneveu]

Hello again Forfarian

Thank you for your reply, yes it certainly sounds convincing doesn't it. How would I be able to search the Kirk records as you said earlier or how could I look to see if there was any other Thomas Shaws at that time?

Many thanks,

Scott

[Forfarian]

How would I be able to search the Kirk records as you said earlier

Unfortunately the Kirk Session records can be searched only in the National Records of Scotland in Edinburgh or in a few local archives in Scotland, includinf Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness.

how could I look to see if there was any other Thomas Shaws at that time?

I looked on FreeCEN http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl but the 1851 census is only partly transcribed. You could try the transcriptions or indexes to the Scottish census at FamilySearch, Ancestry etc, and then check any likely candidates with the originals at Scotland's People.

[Scottleneveu]

Hello again,

Ok, well visiting any of those places would prove to be rather difficult for me as I've lived in London my entire life 

And with regards to doing the searches on the sites that you've suggested, how would I do it and where would I start? It doesn't say where he was from or when he was born. I found a family with the Shaw\Watson that you said about and it had George Shaws parents as James Shaw and Elisabeth Buchanan, this may be right or this may be wrong. I just don't know where to start!

Any help on how to start would be greatly appreciated

Thank you

Scott

[Forfarian]

Ok, well visiting any of those places would prove to be rather difficult for me as I've lived in London my entire life 

Go to London King's Cross, get on a train, enjoy the scenery for 4½ hours or so, get off the train at Edinburgh Waverley Station, walk up the steps and cross the road, and you will be at the National Records of Scotland. You'll need to get a reader's ticket, for which you will need to take ID and passport photographs, but that doesn't take more than a few minutes. See http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/visit-us for advice. And the natives are very friendly

And with regards to doing the searches on the sites that you've suggested, how would I do it and where would I start?

FreeCEN is at http://www.freecen.org.uk/ and you would start with the search screen at http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

FamilySearch is at https://familysearch.org/ and you would start with the search screen at https://familysearch.org/search - probably best to start with 'Browse all published collections' and home in on the UK and Ireland.

It doesn't say where he was from or when he was born.

What doesn't say? I told you that the Thomas Shaw I found was born in Cumbernauld and that in 1851 he was living in Old Monkland.

I found a family with the Shaw\Watson that you said about and it had George Shaws parents as James Shaw and Elisabeth Buchanan, this may be right or this may be wrong.

Could be right. The eldest son of George Shaw and Mary Watson was named James, their second daughter was Elisabeth, and one of his sons had the middle name Buchanan. But if I were you I wouldn't worry too much about George's parents now - I'd concentrate on looking for evidence that Thomas is indeed your man.

I just don't know where to start!

One thing you could think about is getting a professional searcher to look in the Kirk Session records for anything on Thomas Shaw and Elizabeth Sunter. Someone familiar with the records would probably find anything, if there is anything to find, a lot quicker than you would, and might even cost less than a return ticket to Edinburgh and an overnight stay.

[Scottleneveu]

Yes well I don't know how to do any of what you've mentioned and surely I need to approach the Thomas Shaw that you've said about  with as much skepticism as anything else. He could be one of a million Thomas Shaws as I highly doubt that it's an uncommon name. So the question is what do I do? I can't just type in Thomas Shaw into the search engines that you've suggested as probably thousands of results would come up and I'm sure that it would be the same with searching Thomas Shaw, Glasgow or Lanarkshire. I have no time frame and no indication to anything. So being new to this how would I narrow it down?

I would've thought that there wouldn't really be any records of a Shaw/Sunter as the child Thomas was born illegitimate, but I could be wrong. Who would I contact to try and do a private search for me? Hundreds of websites appeared once I typed private researcher into google and I really doubt that I'd travel up to Edinburgh for something that may not even be there.

Scott

[Forfarian]

I would've thought that there wouldn't really be any records of a Shaw/Sunter as the child Thomas was born illegitimate, but I could be wrong. Who would I contact to try and do a private search for me? Hundreds of websites appeared once I typed private researcher into google and I really doubt that I'd travel up to Edinburgh for something that may not even be there.

Quite. I think you have made a correct assessment.

There used to be a link from the National Records of Scotland web site to lists of accredited researchers, but I can't find it now. Go to http://www.asgra.co.uk/listofmembers.php and have a look at the members' areas of interest.