Frederick elphick

[Kay99]

The FreeBMD index has only 2 Frederick Elphick's born in the June Qtr 1866 and the other one who was born in Edmonton Middlesex and died there in 1887

[John M Holmes]

The problem is that the Ancestry.com marriage certificate registration gives his wife's name as either Louisa WATERS or Emily SHAW.
List of census & Documentation I have:
1866 - Birth at Hildenborough, Kent, England (2nd Quart/Tonbridge/Vol: 2a/Page: 485)
1866 - Baptism (5 Aug) Hildenborough, Kent. Parents: Edgar & Harriet Elphick.
1871 - Son: 4 years old - Parents: Edgar Elphick, Harriett Denton
1881 - Nephew: 14 yrs - Staying with John & Ann Moseley (In Lydd, Kent)
1882 - Marriage: 15 yrs - To either Louisa Waters or Emily Shaw
1891 - Lodger: 24 Yrs (Born: 1867, Tonbridge, Kent) - With S. & N. Barton. This may not be him!
1941 - Soldier: 44 yrs - Uckfield, Sussex: Royal Sussex Rgt. S/No: GSSRR570 (Army Reserve)
Nothing after that.

[Annette7]

JohnMHolmes

First, as has been explained, we don't believe that the Frederick who married in 1882 is 'your' Frederick.   The one who marries Louisa Waters was, according to 1891 census, born ca.1851 not 1866!

Secondly, it looks like 'your' Frederick b.1866 went to Canada where his birthdate on 1901 census is given as 14/5/1866 England which ties in exactly with your Frederick.   According to that same census Frederick apparently arrived in Canada in 1889!

I confess I'm bewildered by your last item '1941 - Soldier 44 yrs - Uckfield, Sussex, Royal Sussex Rgt. etc.??   This means that the soldier was bc.1897 so how does this tie in with your Frederick b.1866? 

Clearly, the events you list are not all for the same person.

Annette

[John M Holmes]

Sorry Annette the soldier's date was 1914, not 1941. I will apply for his birth certificate and also his 1882 marriage cert to see if that will clear anything up. I will follow up on your great information as well.

Thanks again, I'll keep you posted, but as I said it takes a few weeks to receive certificates from the UKGRO from Australia.

[Annette7]

I confess I'm a bit confused.   Can you explain if you are trying to work forward from the Frederick b.1866 Hildenborough, Kent OR are you tracing back and believe he could be yours?

The one in 1914 was born 1870 Uckfield, Sussex, the one born ca. 1851 was born Tunbridge Wells, Kent and the other is Frederick born 1866 Hildenborough, Kent.

These are definitely 3 different people which, at this point, I would think twice about before ordering certificates.

If you are working back can you tell us who you are definitely connected to and what you know for certain - perhaps we can help you further before you resort to certificates because at this precise moment it seems all if's/but's and maybe's with 3 different candidates.

Annette

[John M Holmes]

Hi Annette,
I am actually trying to go forward from the 1866 birth. I was curious about his wife, seeing two names were given (Shaw & Waters) and now it's bugging me! Just shows one should not stray of the main lineage!

Frederick is a son of Edgar and Harriett Elphick (Nee: Denton) and is an offshoot.

Harriett Denton also married John Henry Large who gave birth to my maternal Grandmother, Hettie Ella Large ( she married William John Brennan) hence my Mother Olive Irene Brennan.
She of course married my Father Albion Holmes. 

Unfortunately, I have just ordered the Birth and marriage certificate for Frederick. At least it should confirm his parents....not sure about the marriage, as you have pointed out.

If I hadn't spent the money on the certs, I probably would've bought a bottle of plonk (lol)!

I will keep you posted! Cheers for now........John

[Annette7]

There are a number of public trees on ancestry all confirming what we've been saying - it was the Frederick Elphick b.1850 Southborough (Tonbridge Wells), son of Edward Elphick and Ann Carrick, who married Louisa Waters 22/8/1882 in the parish church, Tonbridge Wells.

If the birth certificate for Frederick, son of Edgar and Harriett, shows a birth date in May 1866 then this is the Frederick who went to Canada ca.1889.   1901 Census, Toronto, Ontario give a birthdate of 14/5/1866 - however, when he died in 1931 the informant (his married daughter) states his birthdate as 28/5/1866.  Presumably one of them is the correct one.

Annette

[John M Holmes]

Thanks Annette,
When I try to get into the census forms (which you obviously can) ancestry.com just gives me electoral records. Even when I go to the "Card Index" it still doesn't let me into census (I don't know why but this has happened before). Is there any where else I can access the census records - I am also a paid member of FindMyPast!

[Annette7]

Will PM you.

Annette