Author Topic: William Morgan SOUTHAN  (Read 2421 times)

Offline Annette Witherby

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William Morgan SOUTHAN
« on: Wednesday 18 March 15 00:46 GMT (UK) »
I am still looking for information regarding William Morgan Southan. I believe he may have been  born 6.8.1851 in Boston USA. Father, William Southan.
William M. married in NZ in 1876 to Martha Jane Bradley. He died in Aust. in 1904.
I cannot find his journey to  NZ or any connection to Boston.
Maybe someone can help me.
Thankyou, Annette
Beattie & Sinclair,  Scotland
Hydes/Hides, Southan, Kay, Broughton, Stenton - Yorkshire.  Southan, NZ & USA.

Offline ennael

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Re: William Morgan SOUTHAN
« Reply #1 on: Friday 20 March 15 09:45 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
  Did he have a son/grandson  who married Annie Laurie CLARK in NSW?

Leanne

Offline Annette Witherby

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Re: William Morgan SOUTHAN
« Reply #2 on: Friday 20 March 15 10:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Leanne,

Thankyou for your reply.
William Morgan had 10 children and many grandchildren.  The families all lived in NSW but I have no record of the wives of the grandsons.  It could be a possibility.
I will do a little research over the weekend.
Many thanks,
Annette
Beattie & Sinclair,  Scotland
Hydes/Hides, Southan, Kay, Broughton, Stenton - Yorkshire.  Southan, NZ & USA.

Offline ennael

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Re: William Morgan SOUTHAN
« Reply #3 on: Monday 30 March 15 01:10 BST (UK) »
Hi,
  Sorry for the delay, did not get the notification that you had responded to my query.

Leanne


Online jorose

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Re: William Morgan SOUTHAN
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 31 March 15 13:07 BST (UK) »
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=463604.0
 - I see we've been over this man before.  I still think that it makes entire sense that William Morgan Southan/m, born 1851, son of Thomas Morgan Southan/m who was in Australia in 1872, got into legal trouble, and then was released in 1874 (according to his VPRS 515 entry which can be found on the Victoria Archives site - and which confirms this William as the son of Thomas Morgan Southam), is the same man who went over to NZ and married there.

The fact that later records disagree with this info does not rule him out - Thomas Morgan Southam appears to have died in 1879, so it is likely that the NZ family did not know him - and entirely possible that after William's legal mishaps that the rest of the family cut contact anyway.

Another thread: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=662854.0

I had a quick look and could not see any appropriate William Southan/m in Massachusetts in 1850 or 1860 US censuses.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline shellyesq

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Re: William Morgan SOUTHAN
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 31 March 15 14:45 BST (UK) »
There was also another prior thread on the US board, but not much progress was made - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=464186.msg3248352#msg3248352

Offline Annette Witherby

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Re: William Morgan SOUTHAN
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 01 April 15 09:55 BST (UK) »
Hello Jorose,
Nothing would please me more than to claim Thomas Morgan Southan as the father of William Morgan.   I have a very large file for Thomas Morgan but I cannot tie him to the USA.

The death cert. for William Morgan on which the informant is his son Horace Morgan states that the Father's name is William Southan. Occupation, unknown and name of Mother unknown.

The name Morgan is carried on  with Thomas' daughter naming her son Morgan.   I know that Thomas had a son in 1950 and the dates fall into place but I still favour Thomas being the Uncle of William M.  He just has to be family connected.

Am I placing too much faith in my Grandfather knowing the truth. Why on earth would he say Boston, USA when Thomas was so connected to England.

I am sorry I am such a bother and I promise not to worry you further.  You have been more than generous with your time and I thank you.

I will plough through the records I have for Thomas Morgan again and maybe the USA will pop out at me.
Once again thank you and to Shelly too.
Regards,  Annette
Beattie & Sinclair,  Scotland
Hydes/Hides, Southan, Kay, Broughton, Stenton - Yorkshire.  Southan, NZ & USA.

Online jorose

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Re: William Morgan SOUTHAN
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 01 April 15 15:14 BST (UK) »
William Morgan Southa(n/m)'s mother Louisa appears to have died in 1871, and his father Thomas Morgan Southa(n/m) in 1879, so both pre-deceased Horace, born over in NZ in 1882.  It wouldn't be surprising if what he knew about his grandparents was rather shaky even if his father had told him the entire truth.

I understand your reluctance to make too big a jump, but given the fact that he'd been in prison in Australia, William may not have been particularly honest, particularly to his future in-laws.  I find it hard to believe there were two of them floating around with the same name who were both about the same age, one who was in Australia up to 1874 and the other who appears out of thin air in NZ a couple of years later.

William Morgan (Australia version)'s criminal records, which can be seen by going to http://access.prov.vic.gov.au , choosing "search by series", and then searching for Southam in 515, confirm his father as Thomas Morgan Southam, veterinary surgeon. It also says he has three sisters (two married in Australia and one living in NZ).  He was released in August 1874, plenty of time to hop over to NZ and woo a nice young girl there.

One option, if you haven't yet: you could get the death certificate of Thomas in Victoria and see how the children are listed on it.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Annette Witherby

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Re: William Morgan SOUTHAN
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 01 April 15 22:43 BST (UK) »
Jorose,
Firstly let me apologise for not viewing the site you suggested before this morning.
I still cannot believe it and yet it seems that "Yes" you have the right William and it is stated there for me to see.
I have the strangest feeling about him as though all of a sudden I have the gg grandfather I have pondered over for so long and you have found and proven his position in my tree.
I intend to obtain the death certificate for Thomas.
Some years ago I was given the date 6.8.1851 in Boston as William M's birthdate and I look forward to also obtaining William's English birth cert.
It is sad that William's son, my Grandfather, Horace Morgan also spent time in a Sydney prison.
I have always wished to have a convict in the family, perhaps this shady past must substitute.

Many thanks again for all your help and I will try to cast Boston out of my mind.
Annette
Beattie & Sinclair,  Scotland
Hydes/Hides, Southan, Kay, Broughton, Stenton - Yorkshire.  Southan, NZ & USA.