Robert IRWIN born 1823

[reiverlassone]

Hoping to find someone looking for my Robert from the Irish end.
According to his age on headstone he was born 5-7 Feb. 1823 and his wife Elizabeth b.5 Nov.1826
From census and death reg. it only states Ireland. I also can't find anything definite re: Eliz. maiden name. I have suspicion she may also have been an Irwin etc spelling.
Their first son Thomas was born on the ship 20 Nov. 1844 which I believe left from Dublin. He was bapt. in Mar. 1845 in Hillier township, Prince Edward County, Ontario, Canada where Rob't and Eliz. lived rest of life. They had 12 children.
I'm told by a grand daughter of Tom's sister that they came from county Antrim, but have seen no proof.
This makes them married just before civil registration began for Ch of Eng.
If they followed the old naming patterns, Robert's parents may have been Thomas & Marg't and Eliz's Samuel and Mary
I know it's not much to go one,,,but this could be my only hope
Thanks for any help

[BallyaltikilliganG]

I think Irwin was spelt in several ways in older records. I did not search in the irish census before 1901 for the fragments that survive  on the national Archives website.  As one is clutching at straws, heres how my hunt used existing resources and resulted in a possible follow up.  Wait until you hit a brickwall in say a months time and then go through all the sources I mention and see if you can have a sensible short list for the father possibly Thomas and then go Church record hunting if they exist.

Robert leaves in 1844 so he is not in Griffths primary valuation,a census substitute about 1862 http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation but his father should be if he is still alive.
So consider Thomas ‘s the possible father, as a a very young father say 16 in 1823, then he would be in 55 years old 1862 , if he was 45 in 1823, then he would be 84 yr old in 1862. About 30 years fefore Griffiths a very limited listing known as The Tithe Applotment Records exists online at http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/

 So starting with Thomas Irwin in Griffiths, one has 5 civil parishes to search
1. Ahoghill   Antrim
Irwin   Charles   Ballyminstra   Ahoghill   Antrim
Irwin   Francis   Ahoghill,(Carmacmoin)   Ahoghill   Antrim
Irwin   John   Ballylummin   Ahoghill   Antrim
Irwin   Mary   Ballyloughan   Ahoghill   Antrim
Irwin   Robert    Straid   Ahoghill   Antrim date 1862
Irwin   Thomas   Tullaghgarley   Ahoghill   Antrim date 1862
Then checking The tithe Applotment Records, we have just
Irwin, Andrew Townland: Loan Year: 1825 so that’s disappointing unless Thomas father was Andrew Irwin
2. Ballinderry   Antrim
Irwin   Thomas   Ballymaclose   Ballinderry   Antrim in 1860s
Then checking The tithe Applotment Records, we have
Irwin, James   Townland: Crewpark Year: 1833
Irwin, John   Townland: Ballymaclose Year: 1833
Irwin, Richd.   Townland: Legatiriff Year: 1833
Irwin, Thos.   Townland: Ballymaclose Year: 1833
Irwin, Wm.   Townland: Ballymaclose Year: 1833
Irwin, Wm.   Townland: Legatiriff Year: 1833
And so on for
3. Ballycor   Antrim
Griffiths list Thomas   Ballyalbanagh   Ballycor
The tithe Applotment Records No records atall
4. Connor   Antrim
Griffiths list Thomas   Tullynamullan   Connor
The tithe Applotment Records  No Irwins
5. Craigs   Antrim
Griffiths list Thomas   Tullaghgarley   Craigs
The tithe Applotment Records No records atall
 However that is straw clutching

The existing church records from PRONI church records quide online includes as an example BALLINDERRY, CO. ANTRIM
C.I. Ballinderry (Connor diocese)
Baptisms, 1806-71; marriages, 1805-45; burials, 1823-
71; vestry minutes, 1790-1870 and 1929; extracts
from baptisms relating to the Higgins family, 1806-37. MIC583/14; T/1572
MOR. Ballinderry
Baptisms, 1754-1817; marriages, 1784-1800; register
of members, 1755-1816; ministers’ diaries, 1768,
1803-04, 1810-17 and 1842-90, which include
baptisms, marriages and deaths, and lists of
members; history of the church from 1750 and
published 2000.
MIC1F/1; CR/9
P. Ballinderry
Copy of financial report showing the amount paid by
each seatholder to stipend and to the Sustentation
fund, 1888-9.
CR/3/20
R.C. Aghagallon (Down and Connor diocese)
[Part of Ballinderry parish is in the Roman Catholic
parish of Aghagallon – see under AGHAGALLON and
part is in the Roman Catholic parish of Glenavy – see
under GLENAVY]

Good luck, hoping others will join in and give you direct leads
JimG

[reiverlassone]

Jim,,,I thank you so much for all your time spent on this. Yes, can be many spellings. My DNA cuz in north of England and many in that area have used U in place of I for many years. Because I had no place is Ireland is the big reason we joined the ClanIrwin DNA study, hoping to find kin there. Alas hardly a soul has joined from Ireland. Our closest matches so far seem to have roots in Tyrone

I have this Griffith's info from this site for some time now. But thanks for noting the info at PRONI. I didn't realize they would do a query, for a charge of course, but worth it if they find. I always thought I must hire a researcher. I already wasted hundreds of dollars at UHF years ago.
I will contact about baptism for my Robert.
I always figured his dad if were a Thomas, would have been born C:1800. If so, there is one in Tithes in same parish of Ballinderry and town land of Ballymaclose. Also in this town land for Tithes are a John and William Irwin. My Thomas b.1844 had middle name of William, plus sibs William and a John
According to another printout I had for Griffith's from site failteromhat.com a William Irwin still in this town land but no John
Maybe I should check these two records for Tyrone, although I always felt the clue from kin was a better bet.
Thanks again
Linda

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Hi Linda, yes you should keep Tyrone in the picture until ruled out. Because you have been trying for so long its hard to know if just one piece of information exists that you don’t know. Another of my motivations is I had a childhood Belfast acquaintance, a David Irwin, who became the Rev Irwin of Groomsport Presbyterian Co Down, he was a good young lad, and I was taught Scripture by his widowed mother, who I remember as a kind but very stern lady Mrs Irwin. So here are my final contribution of a few more items noticed 
Erwin in Co Antrim from Griffiths
Erwin   James   Galgorm Parks   Ahoghill   Antrim
Erwin   Daniel   Carniny   Ahoghill   Antrim
Erwin   John   Dock Townparks Great Patrick Street   Shankill   Antrim
Erwin   John   Dock Townparks Corporation Street Market   Shankill   Antrim
Erwin   John   Dock Townparks Great Patrick Street   Shankill   Antrim
Erwin   David   Bridewell Court,Ballymena   Kirkinriola   Antrim
Erwin   John   Dock Townparks Corporation Street Market   Shankill   Antrim

Some of the surviving bits of  the 1821,31,41,and51 census contain Irwins, and Erwins
Findable on http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie,

Before I leave the irish tithes in   Kirkinriola   Antrim
Irwin, John Townland: Monaghan Year: 1833

Irwin, Thomas Townland: Monaghan Year: 1833

Irwin, Widow Townland: Monaghan Year: 1833

going further back with Bill MacAFee website http://www.billmacafee.com
1796 Flax growers
Irwin                 Charles              Loughguile         Antrim

1660s HearthMoney rolls,. The list is too large to produce here, but my eye caught
17469   1081   Antrim   Massereene Upper   Ballinderry   Moneycrumog   Money Cromocke   John   Erwin   Irwin
17640   1252   Antrim   Massereene Upper   Ballinderry   Portmore   The New Park   Wm   Erwine   Irwin
Good luck with PRONI, sorry you had the experience withe UHF, which is still adding material all the time
JimG

[reiverlassone]

Jim
Thanks so much again. I checked UHF and they had the bapt. for Ballinderry parish.  Nothing that fits my Robert. Therefore saved some $ at PRONI. I get updates from UHF so can keep checking
Will work on Tyrone records

Regards Linda

[anniehadden]

Linda,

Glad you've been posting on RootsChat and are still working on your Irwin ancestors. I really think your ancestors are likely to be from County Tyrone, where you and I have a number of close DNA matches, and my Armstrong-Irwins are known to have lived since at least the mid-1700s (and probably a generation or two earlier).

The Irwin/Erwin/Urwin emigration theory that Graeme Urwin suggests is a good one. As the Reiver groups broke up and dispersed, his Urwin/Irwin family moved from Scotland down Hadrian's Wall and the Tyne Valley to the coalfields in Northumberland & Durham, where they were pit miners for generations. My Armstrong-Irwin ancestors obviously went to Ulster, as did yours; mine seem to have been farmers and tradesmen/shop keepers, for the most part. Then a century or so later, mine emigrated to the U.S. and yours to Ontario.

We have strong ancestral connections with lines such as Brian Erwin's, whose ancestor Robert Irwin/Erwin was born in the 1680s in Ireland and seems to have settled in Virginia in the 1740s. Also there's our close DNA match with Dr. John Irwin, whose ancestor Richard Irwin (born about 1710 or up to a decade earlier) left Aughnacloy, Co. Tyrone, for the U.S. and died on the voyage in 1772.

The fact that we have close DNA matches among these now widely-scattered families certainly indicates a common ancestor born BEFORE the 1680s, don't you think?

Annie