Irish birth & death certificates plus rules for burial in Ireland

[hallmark]

OK.

[aghadowey]

Apologies for the typo in my earlier post- correction added in red-

I find it most unlikely that deaths in the later part of the 1900s 1800s would gone unregistered no matter what the circumstances but without more exact information it's impossible to find the registrations.

First of all, a clergyman, of any denomination, is not needed for a burial to take place. However, a clergyman would have known about a burial in their own churchyard (even if the event is not recorded in the register- if there is one). People of all denominations could be buried in Church of Ireland ground as it was the Established (i.e. State) Church and certainly in my area of Co. Derry their details were not always recorded in the church burial register. I'm fairly certain that people wouldn't have been buried in Church of Ireland ground without the sexton being involved and the Rector not aware and certainly a burial wouldn't have taken place during Sunday services.

california dreamin- if you'd like help finding any of the 'missing' death registrations do let us know.

[california dreamin]

Hi aghadowey

Your reply that a clergyman of any denomination was not needed for a burial really surprised me.  Finding a parish record of a burial in my mind seemed to indicated that a legal church burial had taken place with a PP or member of the clergy in attendance.

Thanks for your offer to assist finding the missing deaths.  I'll send you a PM.

CD

[hallmark]

Comments in records for a C of I church, not Londonderry...

no service, the notice given being so short that there was no time to change the hour fixed for the funeral. Another important  Parochial engagement having been previously arranged for same hour.

 no service, living in England,  + not having come to reside at the time

no service  as the parties would not wait the arrival of the Clergyman, who did duty in my absence, and who was on his way to the funeral,  sufficient notice also was not given

no service, no notice whatsoever having been given of her death, though she was visited a few days previously, when she was in her usual health.


no service, no notice having been given  + being from home when the funeral arrived

buried without notice during Divine Service

[Wexflyer]

I would have to disagree with some of the assertions in this thread.

- There was no need for a "death cert" for clergy to perform a burial that I know of. Indeed, how could there have been, when deaths were typically only registered long after burial?

- That deaths (or births) can be assumed to be registered by the 1870s only makes me smile (grimly). If only!

- Reference to "CofI" graveyards can be very highly misleading. In my experience, which is exclusively in the South-East, only post-reformation CofI churchyards were exclusively Protestant. All pre-reformation churchyards were still, from a Catholic viewpoint, consecrated ground.  Both Catholics and Protestants were buried in these graveyards, usually by their own respective clergy. This continues to the present in some cases. These graveyards should really be considered "mixed' rather than CofI or Catholic - there are many graveyards listed as "CofI" where the vast majority of interments are Catholic. Of course, in many graveyards the original (civil) parish church was in ruins, or not extant at all, the origin of most of the evocative rural graveyards which dot the landscape.

- While there may not have been a formal legal requirement for clergy to do so, I believe burials were invariably performed by clergy.

[frostyknight]

I would have to disagree with some of the assertions in this thread.

- There was no need for a "death cert" for clergy to perform a burial that I know of. Indeed, how could there have been, when deaths were typically only registered long after burial?

- That deaths (or births) can be assumed to be registered by the 1870s only makes me smile (grimly). If only!

I have to agree with Wexflyer re the above. In Ireland burials normally take place 3 days after death. Deaths were registered long after the burial (and still are) unlike in the UK where a dc is apparently necessary for a burial to take place. Many deaths were never registered at all, and neither were many births....and long after the 1870s too - well into the 20th century in my experience. However  my research has been in Dublin, the Irish midlands and the south-east. I realise the OP is referring to Ulster death records and there may well be different traditions there. Frostyknight

Edited to add: I had obtained a birth cert for someone born in 1878 many years ago. Because of the BMD records now online, I discovered that there was a twin, Mary, who died shortly after birth. The births were indexed one after the other, but there was no indication on either cert of the babies being twins. This is the one and only instance of twins that I have come across in the family to date. I have also seen 2 registrations where the name on registration and the name at baptism are different.

[aghadowey]

Just to clarify a few things-

"As far as death certificates go there should be a registration from 1864 onwards (certainly by 1870s). If you are having difficulty locating one perhaps the recorded age is not accurate and putting you off from finding the one you are looking for."
I said there SHOULD be a death certificate from 1864 onwards (the start of civil registration) and certainly by 1870s (compulsory registration) NOT that deaths were always registered.
Since the poster was talking about Co. Londonderry- most of the time difficulty find a record is due to the name or age being different to expected or incorrect.

When I said by the late 1800s most deaths would have been registered it was regarding Co. Londonderry but certainly in more remote areas the average might well be less.

When I mentioned other denominations using Church of Ireland graveyards I didn't say Catholic burials. (the original post didn't specify religion)