Joining the dots between 1702 marriage and 1680 baptism

[rich23434565]

I've spent a long time trying to trace the wife of John Young of Withington in Gloucestershire. I knew she was called Eleanor and that the marriage took place c.1700 in Gloucestershire. I finally found it:

"John Young of Withington & Elioner Gutheridge of Northleach by Licence"

The marriage took place in Gloucester at the church of St Mary de Crypt. Withington is some 15 miles from Gloucester and Northleach, the bride's alleged parish, is around 20 miles from Gloucester, so the couple had to travel some distance to get married at St Mary de Crypt. Almost every marriage on the same page (30 or so) was by licence but I don't think that's significant.

I've struggled to find Elioner Gutheridge's baptism though. It's an unusual name (Gotheridge and Goodrich are alternative spellings that I've come across) and the only one I can find is this:

"Elianora fil: Thoma et Elizabetha Gotheridge: 12 August 1680"

And yes, the baptism took place at St Mary de Crypt in Gloucester, the exact same church where John Young and Eleanor Gutheridge were married in 1702. The location, the name and the year or birth dovetail perfectly with marriage in 1702.

I'd love to claim that the child baptised in 1680 and the bride of 1702 are the same but the fact that she claimed Northleach as her parish, so far from Gloucester, bothers me. And I'm always aware, the further you go back, of the increasingly poor coverage of the records. Just because it's the right name doesn't mean it's necessarily the right person. I've checked the St Mary de Crypt register and it doesn't appear that the child called Eleanor Gutheridge died in infancy.

Given these names and dates and the shared location, if you were me, would you assume that the two Eleanor Gutheridges are one and the same person?

Rich

[Ruskie]

It is tempting isn't it?  Eleanor may have been living in Northleach when she married rather than being born there.

Have you checked surrounding parishes for a baptism of any others by that name? If you don't find any within a reasonable time frame then that adds a little more weight to your theory.

I'm not sure if this will help at all, but sometimes you may find clues if you work sideways, looking at known siblings of your Eleanor and trying to match them up with the children born to Thomas and Elizabeth and baptised in St Mary de Crypt. Are the witnesses to the marriage of Eleanor and John any help?

Others may have more constructive ideas to help you.

[rich23434565]

It is tempting isn't it?  Eleanor may have been living in Northleach when she married rather than being born there.

Have you checked surrounding parishes for a baptism of any others by that name? If you don't find any within a reasonable time frame then that adds a little more weight to your theory.

I'm not sure if this will help at all, but sometimes you may find clues if you work sideways, looking at known siblings of your Eleanor and trying to match them up with the children born to Thomas and Elizabeth and baptised in St Mary de Crypt. Are the witnesses to the marriage of Eleanor and John any help?

Others may have more constructive ideas to help you.

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll have a go at seeing if there are siblings of Eleanor Gutheridge baptised at St Mary de Crypt and following them up. I've found her parents' marriage at the same church in 1679/80 (although I was a bit disappointed when I saw that her mother's surname was Jones!).

Yes, Eleanor might well have been living at Northleach. The parish registers are very comprehensive and she wasn't baptised there, but it's not that far from Withington and John Young and Eleanor Gutheridge must've met somewhere.

I usually find that people living in the Cotswolds, if they didn't get married in their own parish, went to Cirencester instead so there must've been a reason why John Young and Eleanor Gutheridge travelled all the way to Gloucester.

I was hoping a Last Will and Testament would come to the rescue but, as yet, nothing has turned up.

Rich

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
Several Wills for Thomas Gotheridges on Ancestry living in Gloucester.
Can't spot one mentioning Eleanor but there are ones 1696(buried 20.12.1695 of St Mary de Loadeat St Catherine Gloucester ),1724 Gloucester and 1728 Stow in the Wold.
None NorthLeach.
Ciderdrinker

[rich23434565]

Hi
Several Wills for Thomas Gotheridges on Ancestry living in Gloucester.
Can't spot one mentioning Eleanor but there are ones 1696(buried 20.12.1695 of St Mary de Loadeat St Catherine Gloucester ),1724 Gloucester and 1728 Stow in the Wold.
None NorthLeach.
Ciderdrinker

Thanks for those

I've checked them out and no, none mention Eleanor, but I've found that the Eleanor Gutheridge baptised in 1680 had siblings called Thomas, William and one possibly called Richard (very faint). I'm sure the Wills you mentioned are related to the same Gutheridge family. It's just a case of finding a connection. Thomas Gutheridge's mother was called Eleanor, so at least that explains why he named his first daughter Eleanor.

I'm starting to convince myself that the Eleanor Gutheridge baptised in 1680 in Gloucester is the same one as married John Young. It seems to me too much of a coincidence that they should travel all that way and just happened to get married in the same church where many of the Gloucester Gutheridge's were baptised or buried, including one named Eleanor.

[rich23434565]

The 1679/80 marriage entry for Thomas Gutheridge and Elizabeth Jones reads:

"Thomas Gotheridge agricola et Elizabetha Jones solut"

I've looked online and 'solutus' can apparently mean 'divorced' from the Latin for 'free' or 'unbound'. It appears a handful of times in the rest of the marriage entries for St Mary de Crypt - Gloucester (I think I counted three examples in about 200 recorded marriages).

I didn't think divorce was really a viable option for the vast majority of people in the 17th century so what else could 'solut' mean? Has anyone else come across it?

[Bookbox]

At this date solutus/soluta just means 'unmarried' -- literally 'free' (to marry).

[spendlove]

Hi,

As they married by licence have you tried to find the Licence?  Some have survived and
may give you additional information.

The following site is free, you need to register, but does contain some Gloucestershire Licences:-

http://www.forest-of-dean.net/

To search you need to click on Resources at top of page.

Spendlove

[pinefamily]

Do the Northleach registers have any Gutheridge entries? And where were Eleanor's parents buried?