Author Topic: Untangling the Thomas Livermores and their Mary Anns  (Read 1520 times)

Online LizzieL

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Untangling the Thomas Livermores and their Mary Anns
« on: Thursday 07 May 15 11:31 BST (UK) »
An online tree has a Thomas Livermore marrying a Mary Ann Myson in Bishop's Stortford in 1880.
The Thomas and Mary Ann that the record is referenced to are only seen together in 1891 with several children all with the Livermore surname, two born before 1881. I believe that Thomas was single in 1881 and Mary Ann was married to / living with a different man.

1891 census

1891 census living Iles Cottages, Marsh Side Edmonton
Thomas    Livermore    Head   35    1856    Ground Workman    b Tottenham, Middlesex    
Mary Ann Livermore    Wife    43    1848    -       b Ware, Hertfordshire    
Alfred    Livermore    Son    16    1875    Factory Hand Tottenham,
Mary Ann Livermore    Dau    13    1878    Mothers Help    b Edmonton
Alice Livermore    Dau    9    1882    Scholar    Edmonton    
Thomas Livermore    Son    5    1886    Scholar    Edmonton    
Charles Livermore    Son    2    1889    -       Edmonton

In 1901, Thomas is widowed (his birthplace changed to Edmonton) and living with two youngest sons Thomas jnr and Charles.

I believe Thomas is the son of Thomas and Elizabeth. In 1881 he is living with his mother and stepfather James Rogers and two younger brothers. In 1871 he is with his parents Thomas and Elizabeth and four siblings, the two who survived to 1881 and John and Louisa who died between 1871 and 1881.

I believe Mary Ann is the wife (or living with Thomas Prior) in 1881.

Living at 2, Eyles Cotts, Edmonton (poss same address as 1881, just alternative spelling)
Thomas    Prior    Head    Married 36    1845    Ag Lab    Edmonton    
Mary A    Prior    Wife    Married   34    1847    -    Ware    
William Prior    Son    Single    13    1868    Ag Lab    Ware    
Charles Prior    Son    Single    8    1873    Schol    Edmonton    
Alfred    Prior    Son    Single    5    1876    -    Edmonton    
Mary A    Prior    Dau    Single    3    1878    -    Edmonton

My problems are, I can't find a likely marriage between Thomas Livermore and Mary Ann Prior or death of Thomas Prior between 1881 and 1891.
I can't find Thomas Prior and Mary Ann with William in 1871. Given the age difference between William and Charles, William could result from a previous relationship.
I can't find a marriage between Mary Ann (anybody) and Thomas Prior in a likely area  which would fit with their ages and births of children.
Assuming Thomas Prior left Mary Ann and Thomas Livermore moved in between 1881 and 1891, I would expect to find Thomas Prior somewhere in 1891, but I can't find him anywhere or the oldest Prior children.

Please can anyone fill in the gaps

Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline Jolee

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Re: Untangling the Thomas Livermores and their Mary Anns
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 07 May 15 13:55 BST (UK) »
The marriage in 1880 between Thomas Livermore and Mary Ann Myson did take place, June quarter of 1880 Bishop Stortford it's on freeband -  ref 3a 397

Edit just found the date 15th May 1880 at Holy Trinity Bishops Stortford Herts

Offline lizdb

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Re: Untangling the Thomas Livermores and their Mary Anns
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 07 May 15 14:09 BST (UK) »
Marriage

Oct/Nov/Dec 1889
Edmonton
Ref 3a 357
Thomas Livermore / Mary Ann Pryor on same page
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online LizzieL

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Re: Untangling the Thomas Livermores and their Mary Anns
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 07 May 15 14:19 BST (UK) »
The marriage in 1880 between Thomas Livermore and Mary Ann Myson did take place, June quarter of 1880 Bishop Stortford it's on freeband -  ref 3a 397

Edit just found the date 15th May 1880 at Holy Trinity Bishops Stortford Herts

Yes thanks, I have the details of this one they are direct ancestors, it's just that their record has been hijacked by the Livermores in Edmonton. But a lot of names used are similar and some of the Stortford did go to north London a few generations earlier, so there may be a family connection. I'm trying to prove or disprove it.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott


Online LizzieL

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Re: Untangling the Thomas Livermores and their Mary Anns
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 07 May 15 14:23 BST (UK) »
Marriage

Oct/Nov/Dec 1889
Edmonton
Ref 3a 357
Thomas Livermore / Mary Ann Pryor on same page

I must be blind, completely missed that one! Should have realised Prior could be Pryor
Thank you.
So there must be a death for Thomas Pryor / Prior somewhere, unless she was a bigamist!
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott