Magna Carta and Essex

[andycand]

Hi findem

Prior to 1898 only Church of England, Jewish and Quaker marriages were recognised in England, a Registrar attended non-conformist marriages and they were recorded in the Local Register Office as Registrar Attended. I don't know whether any non-conformist marriages were ever conducted without a Registrar present or not but if they were then I believe that they would not have been recorded at the Local Register Office or the GRO.

Andy

[findem]

Thanks for that info Andy.

The whole situation has left me very confused, there's Braintree R O giving me a reference, albeit an unusual one 1894 Stebbing1 entry 68, also intimating that they (Braintree) don't have the register but Uttlesford R O should have it.  Then there's Uttlesford R O stating the don't have the register in question because the registers they hold don't start until 1939.  Then to crown matters the GRO say they can't find the marriage.

So where the devil is that register.       

That's what's making me think that the only way I'm going to find out  if that marriage is the right one, or if it even exists, is a check in the Stebbing Congregational Marriage Register.

This is a new experience for me, usually I send for a certificate to the GRO, it arrives in the post and Bob's your uncle, not only a new experience but an extremely frustrating one, pity I don't still live in the UK and Essex, then I could go down to London and check the b****y register myself.   

[andycand]

Hi

There is an 1894 marriage for a William Theobald, June Qtr 1894 Dunmow Registration District, vol 4a page 811. Could that be confusing Braintree R O ?

Have you considered that they may not have actually married?

Andy

[LizzieL]

There is a baptism of a William Hansell Robinson on 27 June 1886 at St Stephen, Haggerston in the borough of Hackney. Parents William (a bricklayer, abode 10 Wharf Road) and Emma. This William Hansell Robinson was born on 31 May 1886.

In 1901 the William who may or may not have married Kate Eliza Theobald was recorded as 36 (born abt 1865, maybe latter end 1864), by 1911 he had knocked a bit off his age.

It could be a coincidence, but the middle name of Hansell made me wonder if there was a connection.
Another thing I noticed on the 1901 census, Kate and all the children are listed by first name and middle initial, but William has no middle initial. If he had a second name, wouldn't he have put a middle initial in?

If William was already married to Emma, it would explain why no marriage to Kate can be found.

[findem]

Hi

There is an 1894 marriage for a William Theobald, June Qtr 1894 Dunmow Registration District, vol 4a page 811. Could that be confusing Braintree R O ?

Have you considered that they may not have actually married?

Andy

Both my cousin and myself have considered that they may not have married and I'm afraid if the Stebbing congregational marriage register doesn't provide their marriage that's the only option we'll be left with.

Braintree may well have been confused by that 1894 William Theobald marriage, I'll have to contact Braintree again.

[findem]

There is a baptism of a William Hansell Robinson on 27 June 1886 at St Stephen, Haggerston in the borough of Hackney. Parents William (a bricklayer, abode 10 Wharf Road) and Emma. This William Hansell Robinson was born on 31 May 1886.

In 1901 the William who may or may not have married Kate Eliza Theobald was recorded as 36 (born abt 1865, maybe latter end 1864), by 1911 he had knocked a bit off his age.

It could be a coincidence, but the middle name of Hansell made me wonder if there was a connection.
Another thing I noticed on the 1901 census, Kate and all the children are listed by first name and middle initial, but William has no middle initial. If he had a second name, wouldn't he have put a middle initial in?

If William was already married to Emma, it would explain why no marriage to Kate can be found.

That baptism of a William Hansell Robinson in 1886 does give a lot of food for thought. 
The William Hansell Robinson who married or paired up with Kate Eliza Theobald was a house painter but Kate's William could still be the father of the 1886 William, perhaps having changed his occupation sometime between 1886 and 1891.  So as you mention LizzieL "If William was already married to Emma, it would explain why no marriage to Kate can be found."

As for the middle name I don't usually place too much emphasis on whether it's shown in full, as an initial or not at all, I have people in my lot who all three options apply over a period of time.  I suppose it's down to whether the individual mentions their middle name and whether the person recording the name is inclined to record it in full, as an initial or whether to bother recording the middle name at all.

[findem]

Many thanks Andy and Lizzie for the info and thoughts you've provided, very much appreciated.

A couple of things I'll do now.

1) Somehow get the Stebbing Congregational Marriage Register for 1893 & 1894 checked at the National Archives.

2) Email the lady at the Braintree R O and ask her what name search brought up the "Stebbing1 entry 368" result, which will also settle the point raised by Andy "was there confusion with the 1894 William Theobald marriage in the Dunmow Reg District".  I had emailed that question a while back but the lady in question was on holiday, someone else tried to check but couldn't find it, I haven't heard anything since.  So perhaps it was the William Theobald marriage.   

[andycand]

A couple of things I'll do now.

1) Somehow get the Stebbing Congregational Marriage Register for 1893 & 1894 checked at the National Archives.

According to the posting by smudwhisk (reply #3) the marriage register for the period 1893-1894 is at the Essex Record Office not The National Archives. Only the first item on the Documents Held list is at The National Archives, the rest have Essex Record Office reference numbers and their catalogue  suggests they have the originals

Using the link below and the Reference Numbers in smudwhisk post you can find more information. Select the View Document and View Child Documents links for more details

http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/ViewCatalogue.aspx?ID=298686

Andy

[findem]

Hi Andy,

The following is an extract of smudwhisk's posting.

"Findem, I don't know where you are looking but there are no digital copies of registers for Stebbing Congregational Church on SEAX as yet, see attached.  None have digital images associated with them and if you click the View, none show there either."

Originally I thought the marriage register I was interested in was on Essex Ancestors but after reading the above statement by smudwhisk and rechecking on Essex Ancestors I concluded that I had been fooled by seeing "View" (coloured blue) against that register and that smudwhisk was correct.