Thomas Carstairs, Kilconquhar Fife

[Matt62]

I'm trying to figure out the parentage of my ancestor Thomas Carstairs. He married Christian Bruce on 9th January 1733 in Kilconquhar, Fife. He died there in 1788 and was a shoemaker. Could anyone help me go back another generation?

There appears to have been many Carstairs families in Fife, which leads me to be unsure who his parents where.

Other family trees have his parents as a David Carstairs and an Elspeth Tod, with his birth in 1707 in Kilconquhar. His eldest son was called David, which could be after his father, while the daughter through whom I am descended was called Elspeth which could have been after his mother. However since I don't see clear sources for this link, I won't accept their judgement in this regard until such evidence is forthcoming. I also found another family tree online by someone called Steve Wakely in which the Thomas born in July 1707 in Kilconquhar to David Carstairs and Elspeth Tod is described as having been married to two women, an unknown 'Dishington' and  a Margaret without a surname, neither of whom match Christian Bruce which leads me to think that this person is not him.

[whiteout7]

Can the Dishington and Thomas Carstairs marriage be found in the IGI. What sources does the Steve Wakely tree use for the Dishington and Margaret marriages?

Do the Dishington and Margaret marriages have children that fit the same name pattern as the David and Elspet tree.

Did the Dishington and Margaret marriage produce more than a single child.

More that one of my ancestors in Fife was illegitimate (and a single child) with a named father who was married to someone else.

If it wasn't for other decendants, I would not know about the other wives/women

I personally could not accept the Steve Wakely tree without its source information it is far worse that the other option

[Matt62]

Hi Whiteout 

Thank you for the reply.

I searched IGI and found a "Ketheren" Dishingtoun marrying a Thomas Carstairs in 1723 as Steve Wakely claimed, although in Kingsbarns. I emailed him and he said that he got his details on the Carstairs family from another person, a Fergus Smith who has an extensive website documenting Carstairs couples. I also found the marriage between a Thomas Carstairs and a Margaret Carstairs for 1741 in Kilconquhar:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTPL-4QT

Steve's tree showed no children for this second marriage, here's a link to it:

http://www.stevewakely.com/wc05/wc05_354.htm

There are 8 children shown for the first marriage to Dishingtoun.

Here's the link to Christian Bruce and Thomas Carstairs marriage:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTPL-4QW

Its in 1733, although a different record transcribes it as "1743" which is clearly an error since their first child together was born in 1734 in Kilconquhar.

I'm not sure that the Kingsbarns "Thomas Carstairs" is the same as the one marrying Margaret in Kilconquhar as Steve and Fergus clearly thought.

As for Thomas Carstairs who married Christian Bruce in 1733, he cannot be married to her and have had children with her well into 1750 and also have married Margaret in 1741. Could they have been relatives, though? Kilconquhar is a small place after all. I am confused...I need to try and figure out if my Thomas really is the son of David Carstairs of Kilconquhar and Elspeth Todd born in 1707 as other trees hold. Steve and Fergus seem to infer that the Thomas C marrying Margaret C in 1741 is the 1707 Thomas but how can I be certain that it isn't mine since he was married in Kilconquhar even earlier than the former?

BTW I made a typo in my first post. It was Christian Bruce, his wife, who died in 1788. I don't know when Thomas died.

[whiteout7]

Carstairs Couples site has:

Thomas Carstairs and Christian Bruce  married in 1733

http://www2.arnes.si/~eusmith/Genealogy/carstairs/couples/0185.htm

Yes -  last child 1750, so I don't think the Thomas that married the unknown Margaret in 1741 is the same man.

Also the Thomas Carstairs born 1707 would have been 16 years old when he married Ketheren Dishingtoun (she could be 24? 7 years older than him, I don't think that in a likely marriage at those ages)

IGI
Katherine Dishingtoun b 1699, Newburn, Fife
0r
Katherine Dishingtoun b 1699, Crail, Fife

Wonder when the last child was born from this marriage? How does it fit with the Christian Bruce marriage in 1733 when Thomas would have been 26 years old? Do the births overlap with the marriage again? I think the Kingsbarn Thomas is not the 1707 Thomas Carstairs.

Because of the naming pattern in the Thomas and Christian Carstairs children, I can only think David and Elspeth Carstairs are his parents.

[Matt62]

I think the Kingsbarn Thomas is not the 1707 Thomas Carstairs.

Because of the naming pattern in the Thomas and Christian Carstairs children, I can only think David and Elspeth Carstairs are his parents.

Thanks for your input White, I am coming to the same conclusion although I don't want to commit to those two being his parents devoid of further proof to that effect. I wish I could uncover some document that made it certain in my mind 

[nevbradshaw]

Hi,
Your message appeared on a google search of "Shoemaker_ Kilconquhar"
I have a family ancester, John Walker a resident of Kilconquhar who died in 1786 in Kilcon' ... at his son John's house in Kilcon'.
He was aged approx. 72-79 years old, so would have been a shoemaker some 10 years before in 1775 or so. Before that he is listed (at time of sons birth) as a Dyer.
Either there were a lot of shoemakers in Kilcon. or Mr Carstairs bought into the business around 1775, or earlier if an apprentice.
Have you got any further with your quest I wonder. Was there a factory making shoes there....seems unlikely.
Nev

[hdw]

I'm trying to figure out the parentage of my ancestor Thomas Carstairs. He married Christian Bruce on 9th January 1733 in Kilconquhar, Fife. He died there in 1788 and was a shoemaker. Could anyone help me go back another generation?

There appears to have been many Carstairs families in Fife, which leads me to be unsure who his parents where.

Other family trees have his parents as a David Carstairs and an Elspeth Tod, with his birth in 1707 in Kilconquhar. His eldest son was called David, which could be after his father, while the daughter through whom I am descended was called Elspeth which could have been after his mother. However since I don't see clear sources for this link, I won't accept their judgement in this regard until such evidence is forthcoming. I also found another family tree online by someone called Steve Wakely in which the Thomas born in July 1707 in Kilconquhar to David Carstairs and Elspeth Tod is described as having been married to two women, an unknown 'Dishington' and  a Margaret without a surname, neither of whom match Christian Bruce which leads me to think that this person is not him.

You are quite right not to jump to conclusions about your ancestry without proof, but unfortunately once you get back to the early 1700s such proof is unlikely to be forthcoming. The names that a couple give their children are usually helpful. Thomas Carstairs and Christian Bruce called their 1st son David and their 2nd daughter Elspeth, so Thomas is quite likely to be the Thomas born at Kilconquhar in 1707 to David Carstairs and Elspeth Tod. Thomas and Christian called their 2nd son John and their 1st daughter Margaret, so I wonder if Christian was a daughter of John Bruce and Margaret Bridges who had a daughter called Agnes at Kilconquhar in 1720. The obvious objection is that they didn't register the birth of a daughter called Christian, but I know from long experience that couples at this date often didn't register the births of all their children as it wasn't compulsory. Sometimes you just have to settle for an educated guess about your ancestry.
As for shoemakers, it was the commonest trade of all and every village seemed to have several.

Harry