General question about finding somebody. Shaw family

[Scottleneveu]

Hello all,

A while ago I was trying to find the father of an illegitimate child, and eventually I think that I found out it was a man named Thomas Shaw.

Now my question is, how can I look up somebody that I don't have a date of birth for?  I don't know anything about this man, all I do know is that in 1871 one of his children or at least somebody claiming that he was his child put his name on a marriage certificate stating that Thomas was a joiner.

Now this child was born in Glasgow I believe and his mother was from Fife, but I've found records of her living in Govan and the Gorbals so I PRESUME that Thomas would've been from the Glasgow area himself but of course, this could be wrong....

I just don't know where to start with this. It's something that I put to one side some months ago and know I'm thinking of digging it up again.

I hope to hear from you,

Scott

[MonicaL]

Hi Scott

Some of the census transcripts let you search for people, including an occupation.

When was the Shaw that you mention, who married in 1871, born? Do you have him on censuses with his mother?

This type info might help in focusing searches for a Thomas Shaw, joiner (carpenter/ wright etc).

For example, there is in 1851 a Thomas Shaw, a joiner, living with his brother in Old Monkland. He was 23 years old. Other brothers also showing in the household. All working with wood as they show as sawyers.

Monica 

[MonicaL]

Ok, see where the names are coming in now - www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=715140.72

Forfarian also found the same entry I have mentioned, in the previous post.

We are right to be wary always. You can't just accept things on face value because that what comes up first. All I will mention now is that the Thomas Shaw that you were discussing in the other post with Forfarian, is the only Thomas Shaw, joiner showing from 1851 to 1881 censuses (married by the time of the 1871 census, single still in 1861).

I note from the other post that Ev mentioned that Thomas Jnr remarried Clementina Wright in 1884. Also, DonM mentioned that Thomas Jnr gave his father Thomas, joiner, deceased when he remarried in 1884. Did the other Thomas, born Cumbernauld died between 1881 (on the census) and 1884?

Monica

[MonicaL]

Haven't viewed the image, but there is a death in COATBRIDGE OR OLD MONKLAND in 1889 for a Thomas Shaw, aged 60. I guess this might be the Thomas Shaw, joiner, we have seen in censuses up to 1881.

It wouldn't put me off this being Thomas Jnr's dad, Scott. People loose touch (if they ever were in touch in these types of situations). Thomas Jnr. could/would have said whatever to the Registrar, nothing was verified really at this time.

This Thomas Snr. I think is your best candidate so far...

Monica

[Scottleneveu]

Hello Monica and thank you for taking an interest in my post.

Yes Thomas Jnr marries Clementina Wright, they were my 3x great grandparents but I haven't seen the marriage certificate myself so I'm not actually sure if it has Thomas Snr name on it or if it just says 'deceased' under fathers name.

Thank you for all your information, it's been very helpful. Do you think that the death for the Thomas Shaw that you found could be him? It's a little later than the time span that you asked about (1881-1884).

All the best,

Scott

[MonicaL]

It could well be Thomas Snr.'s death in 1889. The area would fit with where he was living with family for a number of censuses. I couldn't see him after the census in 1881.

Monica

[Scottleneveu]

Ok brilliant but how could I go about finding a birth for this Thomas Shaw as I'm still limited to the information that I have for him? 

Scott

[MonicaL]

Well, that looks pretty convincing to me. Everything else seems to match, so I reckon that your Thomas Sunter told the minister or registrar in Berwick-upon-Tweed that his father was Thomas Shaw, joiner.

The 1851 lists a 23-year-old joiner named Thomas Shaw who has to be a candidate for the father of Thomas Sunter. This Thomas was born in Cumbernauld, and is living at Coats, Old Monkland, with his brothers Robert, 37; James, 39; George, 31; Alexander, 20.

They look like the sons of George Shaw and Mary Watson: James b 1811, Robert b 1813, George b 1819, Thomas b 1825; Alexander b 1830. Thomas would have been 25, not 23, on the date of the 1851 census, but that's a not unusual error.

So I think you could pencil in this Thomas as a possible father for your Thomas Sunter, and look for corroborating evidence, such as something in the Kirk Session records, though that won't be easy, especially if they were living in Glasgow when Thomas Sunter was conceived.

This is what you were discussing I think with Forfarian on the other post.

This Thomas Shaw and siblings would have been born before the start of official registration in Scotland in 1855, so, you are looking for an birth or christening entry for Thomas in the Old Parish Registers (OPRs). Only about a third of events pre 1855 were recorded for all sorts of reason. Also, many registers have been lost/destroyed over the years. OPR entries often has very little info on them. Many no more than a one line entry on the register with basic info.

There is a possible entry for Thomas though which could fit well: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYZP-H5T

His marriage or death cert would confirm these parents' names for this Thomas, as showing on the 1825 entry.

He is the best fit father for your Thomas. However, we are still missing definitive proof though...

Monica

[Scottleneveu]

Hello again Monica,

Yes this is it, I don't think that there's any way that I can get definitive proof is there?

Scott