James Low born 1730 Katharine Mitchel born 1752 Forfar, Angus, Scotland

[HeatherB]

James Low born about 1730 died about 1790 Forfar, Angus, Scotland. Is there a chance of someone being able to check the microfiche to see who he married and when, I wondered if an accident, plague or war was the cause at that time.
Also if James had any other children.

He is the father of my 4th great grandfather William Low Christened 12 Jun 1754 Forfar, Angus, Scotland death 1790

William his son born 1752 was married 13 Feb 1773 to Katharine Mitchel born 1752 died 1800 Forfar their children christened married and died at Forfar, Emelia 28 JAN 1778, John 19 JUL 1780, married to Marjorie Milne 21 Dec 1805, Catherine (Katherine) 1782 married to Alexander Rea 28 Nov 1810, Burial 28 Sep 1860 Newmonthill Cemetery Forfar, James birth 19 Aug 1787 christened 26 AUG 1787 married to Susan Howie and Janet Watt

Also any information about Katherine Williams wife would be great.

I got this information from a letter my grandmother had.

[Forfarian]

James Low born about 1730 died about 1790 Forfar, Angus, Scotland. Is there a chance of someone being able to check the microfiche to see who he married and when, I wondered if an accident, plague or war was the cause at that time.

Not sure what you mean by 'the microfiche' but if you mean the International Genealogical Index, you can access the same information online at https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi

However it lists no marriage of any James Low in Forfar between 1700 and 1760

William Low and Katherine Mitchell were married in Forfar on 13 February 1773.

There are baptisms of three children to William Low and Katherine Mitchell
Emelia, born 28 and baptised 29 January 1778
John, born and baptised 19 July 1770
James, born 19 baptised 26 August 1787

You can (and definitely should) look up the originals of these records at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - they will probably have names of witnesses who may provide a clue about the family connections.

There are 7 baptisms of children to James Low in Forfar between 1751 and 1786. There is only one William, baptised 17 March 1770, mother Helen Butchart.

I also had a look at the book of monumental inscriptions, but there are none for this family.

I speculate that your Lows may have been members of the Episcopal Church, with the result that their baptisms and marriage are not in the Church of Scotland records.

Unfortunately the 18th century episcopal records do not seem to have survived. I have even spent a morning burrowing around in the assorted chests and bookshelves in St John's Church in Forfar, actively assisted by the then incumbent, but entirely without success.

[HeatherB]

The information I had came from a letter sent to my grandmother by the Sexton at Forfar in 1957. We had gone to visit him to find out where her fathers family had been buried and he suggested that she might find it rather fun to start doing a family tree to find out more for herself. He gave us a list of those buried in the plot from the first internment and also told us verbally a little that he knew about the families. Armed with the addresses of recent burials we visited relatives still resident in the town because she was interested to discover more about her dads family.  As her Father and family had left to travel to Australia in 1901 there were still memories within those we visited of this group. As is often the case it was her mothers family in Dundee she was far more in touch with and wanted to just fill in the mystery gaps. Unfortunately she died in 1964 with her passage booked to return and do some serious research. All of her letters and notes were destroyed except a couple of items that an aunt passed onto me in 1979 after I had mentioned that I might do some family research in the future.
In July 2012 I lost the information on my computer and had to go back to a very early version that hubbie had on his. When I went to the Library where I had done research on the microfiches that they held I discovered that all the material had been transferred at the request of Ancestry.com to Auckland which is 593 miles away and in return while in the library you could pay to use the computer and access their site free for two years. Hardly a bargain when before you could just go and get the records put them in a reader and look for nothing. As the internet and telephone package we pay for from home costs $130 a month it doesn't really allow any spare cash for additional research, hence the utilization of free sites and help which I am extremely grateful for.
Thank you so much for this information and the trouble you have gone to , perhaps William born 1770 had a different mother to the others. James would have been 18 just about the right age to be spreading his oats around.

[Forfarian]

all the material had been transferred at the request of Ancestry.com to Auckland

I am astounded. Was this an LDS Church Family History Centre?

I have just done two identical searches, one in the International Genealogical Index (the online version of the fiche, which is free to use) and one on Scotland's People (pay per view) for William Low, born in Forfar in 1754.

Both produce two results. The IGI has, in its 'Community Contributed' section, the baptisms of William, son of James Low, on 12 June 1754 and William, son of David Low, on 23 July 1754. I do not understand why these same baptisms did not come up when I did a similar search in the IGI yesterday.

I do not trust the information in the 'Community Contributed' section of the IGI, because although much of it is perfectly accurate, there is a significant number of entries which range from inaccurate guesswork through sloppy research to pure fantasy. So it is always essential to follow up anything you find there until you have seen the original document.

Putting the exact details from the IGI into the search at Scotland's People confirms that these two entries in the IGI are matched by the entries in SP.

The source is given in the IGI as "Family History Library Family History Library , Microfilm : 0820223" and the Batch Number is 7206213, IGI Batch type code.

You have a number of alternative methods for obtaining the original information.

First, you can invest £7 (A$15) in 30 credits at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. This will be enough to view that baptism, the marriage of William to Katherine Mitchell, and the three baptisms of their children that I listed yesterday.

Second, you can hope that some kind person on this list has 30 credits (A$15) to spare, and that they will be willing to use those to look the information up for you.

Third, you can hire a professional researcher to get the same information in the Scotland's People Centre in Edinburgh. I would not particularly recommend this as it is unlikely to be significantly cheaper than doing it yourself.

Fourth, contact your nearest LDS Church Family History Centre and arrange for them to rent a copy of the microfilms (not microfiches) of the Forfar Parish Register for the period in question. I am not sure how much this would cost, but probably just a few dollars per film. When the films arrive, go there and extract the information from the films. This is the method I would recommend, because you can then extract as much information as you like - all baptisms of Lows and Mitchells, for instance, or baptisms of other people's children witnessed by Lows or Mitchells. This is your best chance of a clue to the name of James' wife or Katherine's parents.

There is in Forfar a list of interments in the parish kirkyard, which is where your grandmother's 1957 correspondent* may have found some information. If you wanted to confirm that information you could contact Angus Archives http://www.angus.gov.uk/info/20369/archives/215/angus_archives and ask them. There might be a charge for this, depending how much staff time would be involved, and if you still have the original 1957 letter it probably won't get you anywhere.

However you could also ask if they have any additional information about James and William Low and Katherine Mitchell. You never know.

One other source which might or might not shed some light is the indexes to the Registers of Sasines. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=26232.0 . However the only way to see these is to go, or get someone to go on your behalf, either to the National Archives Records of Scotland http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/or Angus Archives, as they are not online.

As for James spreading oats, that's not the case. James Low and Helen Butchart had at least 5 children between 1762 and 1770 in Forfar. James Low and Helen Butchart were married either on 2 December 1758 in Forfar, or 2 December 1759 in Dundee, depending which listing in the 'Community Contributed' IGI you happen to decide to believe.

(* Did he actually describe himself as "sexton"? Because if he did, it's the first time I have ever come across that term being used in Scotland!)

[HeatherB]

Morning/evening

Interesting stuff I find on either my laptop or desktop because they have different programs on them even a Google search will often bring up different results. That it always pays to take a note as to be sure you never find the information again.
Also The library I was talking about is council run library and where I live two cities live about 25 miles apart and resources and information in the two main libraries and the smaller satellite ones are very different. The microfitches in question and some books had been donated over the years by people doing research to share with others in the community that were interested. I think that somehow a copyright issue is involved.
Councils also gave grants for information in old newspapers to be copied and become available to locals for historical purposes and local businesses that updated their equipment also donated readers so there was always a hive of activity in these areas now just rows of empty readers and the odd person looking at the skeleton of information that was left. I can see the logic of what is being done as the Auckland library is huge but as far as centralization goes hundreds of miles from most of us. I use to delight in going into every little hick town we passed through when we went anywhere and looking at their family history section, it is amazing what you would find donated family trees, books created when companies had an anniversary. I always turned to the back to see if my family was mentioned then turned to the relevant page. It was almost as good as the cemetery wandering that we my grandmother and I and now myself as you can see in a radius of the main settlement where the original settlers had arrived and farms by the quantity of graves.

I am trying to find the original letter to my grandmother which could be anywhere, (I have been known to use important documents as book marks) it may have had sextons office as I know where we went to get information was in the town, but my grandmother who like me often got things wrong always referred to him as the Sexton. As he had a suit on he didn't look like a person who dug graves. Copies of the letter should be all over the world as everyone who contacted me that was related I sent a scanned jpeg to.

What a shame wild oats are so interesting the taste so much better than the cultivated type.
My grandmother always said her father was an incredibly handsome man, didn't smoke or drink but always had a bit more than an eye for the ladies.

Time is my enemy as I do volunteering tutoring and spend at least 60 hours a week very little time for anything else. But I will heed your advice.
I had intended to come on holiday in 2017 we have been saving up for 10 years but the way our dollar is falling it may even have to be a little longer.

Thank you you sound a very organized person, my student as at the door bye for now

[breaky]

(Had a few credits left).  Scotlandspeople has

12th June 1754 Forfar

"James Low Mason and Burgess in this Burgh had his Child baptized called William and born the same Day"

(Of the nine entries listed on the page, only three are not "Burgesses").

[HeatherB]

Thank You so kind of you I do appreciate this.

I have recently been able to afford to have my brothers Y DNA done as yet no results but I thought something I could do in the meantime was go back on our tree and try and tidy up a few loose ends, so if I had any matching family results I would have a firmer foundation to follow.
Imagine the poor little mite being baptized on the same day he arrived in the world, if their were other Burgess family on the page maybe it was a bulk deal, minister in town for a short duration, or maybe they were a large family whose members all attended that church.
It looks like on my fathers side we come from a long list of trades people, unfortunately however much I wish I was handy with tools I end up breaking more than I create seems I inherited my genetics that way from the other side. I read lots of books about the times they lived in which seem pretty grim to us now but no doubt they were just god fearing people of the times they lived in anyway. I do find it sad that the further back you go women don't seem to have a name they were just the wife or mistress of someone who did perhaps they were happy with having reached that pinnacle in life anyway. I guess as we read the past we try to bring our thoughts and values onto those who passed before when no doubt they fitted into their times perfectly.

[Forfarian]

maybe it was a bulk deal, minister in town for a short duration

I think that is very unlikely. Forfar is the county town of the county of Angus, and was a place of sufficient importance to have an oversupply of ministers at times! (Even in the late 1960s, when I was a student and got a job as a Christmas postie in Forfar, my round had five manses in just two streets. Made for a very heavy bag of Christmas cards, I can tell you!)

The reason why there are so many burgesses in the register of baptism is at least in part because there were a lot of burgesses in Forfar. There were several guilds and incorporations, and anyone admitted to be a master in a guild or incorporation could be referred to as a burgess. If you look at the details, you will probably find them described as "xxx and burgess ...." where 'xxx' could be one of many trades and professions.

[HeatherB]

Hi there again
 I seem to have got a bit muddled in the fact that I thought Burgess was the name of James wife's family, it is said when we hear or listen to something we tie it in with our present knowledge and the term here is foreign and shows a cultural difference, the same category would be Councillor. As we know quite a few people with the surname Burgess this is what I presumed.
 
If I can make a joke, perhaps they all attended the same Christmas Party.
However seeing the baby was so young maybe it was feared it might die.
 
I think perhaps in the sixties we all had an over supply of churches the job description seems to have altered since then. If one didn't turn up at church the minister besides making his customarily calls would be on the doorstep or rather having afternoon or morning tea to find out why? Now a lot of church duties have been taken over by celebrants or government trained offices. The people going to church seem to be mainly older and to attract people they have to be right out there with additional practices and services. Funny enough the street where I live has/had the manses of all the churches in the city, which was once an island and around the edge of the settled area each church staked out their territory and on the top of the hill the three connecting small streets each had a manse connected to a church with pathways or steps down the hill.
I suppose Guilds are what we call Unions now the representatives here would live in the poorest part of town. Trades people are considered middle class,or even better class and would live in a higher part of town. Doctors, lawyers and accountants would be interspersed among them and the farmers which have always been the background of our country outside the city area, but when they retired at an advanced age they sold their farm or handed it over to a family member, they bought a house in the upper suburbs then did the big OE returning to settle down and then joined some charity organization to have somewhere to go on a regular basis to meet with others from the same field, contribute to society and generally feel good about life after work.

My mothers family however have over a thousand years of ministry and missionary in their family tree and a lot of them quite elderly are still carrying on the good work. However I don't believe that you have to belong to an official religion to be a reasonably good person and help others to the best of your ability.