Author Topic: Building History  (Read 5000 times)

Offline josey

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Re: Building History
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 17 September 15 12:54 BST (UK) »
On the 1896 OS map, link in reply #14.

ADDED; it seems there were 2 leases by Hamilton to Muirhead at Croftamie recorded on 3 Aug 1894 [1] the one above of 4 ac 2 ro 30 fa 7 el recorded book 321 folio 139  [2] one of 5˝ acres recorded book 321 folio 144. The house you are interested in is within the 2nd lease & now occupies 0.12 acres.

However your initial question can only be answered so far to the extent of saying it was built pre-1860!! As far as I know there was no centralised system of building plan approval then, it would have been the estate owner's factor would have had that task, if at all.

EDITTED TO ADD: The document DonM pointed out in reply #7 probably both leases on the plan. The properties appear still to be held under lease.

Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline josey

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Re: Building History
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 17 September 15 13:13 BST (UK) »
It looks like the estate of Easter Catter belongs to this John Hamilton [again as pointed out by DonM] & is part of several holdings.

Josey
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline bfr89x

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Re: Building History
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 19 September 15 07:58 BST (UK) »
Josey,
Please excuse me, I am easily confused!! The attachment you sent has the names John-John Buchanan and no mention of our old friend John Hamilton. Are you able to link them via some of those numbers scattered all over the document or could it be a different parcel of land.
Regards,
Ron
Buchanan, Aitken, Fleming, Guthrie, Muirhead, Edmond. Dumbartonshire, Stirlingshire, Ayrshire

Offline josey

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Re: Building History
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 19 September 15 10:04 BST (UK) »
Hi sorry, I am so familiar with these pages that I failed to explain!! I daren't post the whole page as the image is probably copyright.

The page was one of the 'Hamilton' section - here is another snippet. So it is the entry John Buchanan Hamilton [apparently an heir to the John Hamilton who granted the leases see http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g5x/ ]. The index shows he owned 5 pieces of land all on the same property search sheet 1430. The first is "Spital of Easter Catter, Temple lands of..." of which the lease was part [see the description in pic on reply #10]. He also owned [reading L - R across then down & L - R again] "Easter Catter 1/3 of 4 Merkland = 17/9 1/3d land [17 shillings 9 and 1/3 pence land = 17s 91/3d]", "Bog or Meadow 2 ac[res] 21 fa[lls] 14 ells", "Shandon 2 ac[res] 1 ro[od] 1 fa[ll] 5 ells", "Templaries teinds etc of".

The money bit refers to how the land was measured - a Merkland was the area of land which could be rented for 1 Merk [old Scottish currency]; Easter Catter would have been able to be rented at 17 shillings 9 1/3 pence - both defined at some unknown [to me] date in history. "Teinds" were the contribution to the maintenance of the clergy.

I will explain later why it was a 999 year lease!! Off out now. Please DO ask anything you don't understand  ;)

Josey.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON


Offline bfr89x

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Re: Building History
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 19 September 15 12:38 BST (UK) »
Hi Josey,
What an incredible depth of knowledge you have. All this has gone over my head at this stage so I'll go to bed and see if a sleep will make it any clearer.
It became more muddied and fascinating when you pointed me to the MacFarlane site as it cross referenced a lot of my Buchanan ancestors - I think! I use the site below for Buchanans and although it is no longer maintained it is quite handy.
Regards and thanks,
Ron

http://buchananstewart.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=buchananstewart&view=9&ver=719

Buchanan, Aitken, Fleming, Guthrie, Muirhead, Edmond. Dumbartonshire, Stirlingshire, Ayrshire

Offline josey

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Re: Building History
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 22 September 15 11:21 BST (UK) »
As promised a bit about why long leases were granted in the 19th century & what happens to them now.

This is my understanding......

From wikipaedia:
Entail is a form of trust established by deed or settlement which restricts the sale or inheritance of an estate in real property and prevents the property from being sold, devised by will, or otherwise alienated by the tenant-in-possession, and instead causes it to pass automatically by operation of law to an heir pre-determined by the settlement deed.

In Scotland it was also called Tailzie [pronounced tail-ey] & the sequence of heirs as proscribed owners were the Heirs of Tailzie. The deeds were registered in the Register of Entails [similar to the Register of Saines]. The deed was called an Instrument of Entail.

If estates had been entailed by an estate owner he/she had to go through the court processes of disentailing it if he wanted to sell or feu off a property or piece of land, then re-entailing afterwards. One way to bypass this was to grant long leases which were not theoretically a sale or feu as the property reverted to the owner/landlord at the expiry of the lease  – typically 990 or 999 years. In effect it was just like a feu – perpetual right to the property; but at that time legally different.

From the Scottish Parliament website
http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Justice/law/17975/LongLeases
The 2012 Act converts ultra-long leases into ownership on the “appointed day” – this will be 28 November 2015.   “Ultra-long leases” are leases that were let for over 175 years and, for residential leases, have over 100 years left to run from the appointed day  and, for non-residential leases, have over 175 years left to run from the appointed day.
Under the 2012 Act, compensatory payments for a former landlord are based on the annual rent payable under the ultra-long lease in question.  In some circumstances, additional payments may be payable by tenants to landlords.
Some leasehold conditions are preserved and become real burdens in the title deeds.


Josey
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Building History
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 22 September 15 12:46 BST (UK) »
So much detail and background you are providing here, Josey. I am learning a lot from this. Thank you  :)

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bfr89x

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Re: Building History
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 22 September 15 12:46 BST (UK) »
Wow Josey, how good are you.
Does all this mean that if it was leased in 1814 for 999 years and is still leased that in November this year it revert to ownership?
Regards and again many, many thanks.
Ron
Buchanan, Aitken, Fleming, Guthrie, Muirhead, Edmond. Dumbartonshire, Stirlingshire, Ayrshire

Offline josey

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Re: Building History
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 22 September 15 13:38 BST (UK) »
So much detail and background you are providing here, Josey. I am learning a lot from this. Thank you 
Thanks, knew it would come in handy one day!!  :D

Does all this mean that if it was leased in 1814 for 999 years and is still leased that in November this year it revert to ownership?

As I understand it, definitely. The Land Certificate will have to be consulted to see if there are any burdens. I know little about [ADDED: MODERN] conveyancing, just the history of land tenure and its transfer. I will pm you.

Josey
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON