Oswald James Hatton.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Yes, my conjecture is Oswald is son of Lizzie Hatton - and grandson of John & Eliza

So 1901, Mount Pleasant
    
John Hatton    53 - market gardener
Eliza Hatton    50
Lizzie Hatton    23  <<< machinist at shoe factory
Alice Hatton    21
Wittakes Hatton    17
Jane Hatton    15
George Hatton    8
John Hatton    8

RG13, 3205, 76, 27

(note she's Elizabeth on 1881 and Lizzie on 1891 - but always b  c1878, making her a 20 yr old mother to oswald)

The key may be the Q2 1901 marriage - the list is

Elizabeth Hatton
Elizabeth Hannah Houghton
Sidney Elson Tivey
Francis Henry Winfield

Frank and Lizzie Winfield (b Castle Donnington and Melbourne respectively) are living in Kingsbury parish in 1911

Sidney Elson Tivey is in Melbourne in 1911 - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7T6-7PY - as is an Elizabeth H Tivey - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7T6-7PB   She's also Elizabeth H on her death registration, which suggests Sidney married Elizabeth H Houghton  and thus Lizzie Winfield was Elizabeth Hatton

the link to Oswald is his army records - mother Elizabeth Wingfield of ? Farm, Lea Marston - which is very close to where Frank and Lizzie are to be found in 1911.

As Oswald was born pre marriage, he would have been a Hatton, and may well have kept the surname, given he is living with his hatton family in 1911. This would also fit if he was not frank Winfield's son.

The birth cert could of course prove me completely wrong!

And where is he in 1901???

[Derbysderek]

Hello again Mabel.............nope,,you're dead right. and after a brisk walk with the dogs I've worked it out almost completely..with your help of course..and Carol's

Here's how it goes.....I have now worked out and found all the relevant censuses......except that FRANK WINFIELD Farmer of Castle Donington appears only on the 1911 with Lizzie and a new child Grace..........can't find him in 1891 or 1901........
The movements of Elizabeth/Lizzie are now clear on every relevant census........BUT

In 1901 Oswald is four years old...........where is he??
In 1911 he is with John and Eliza and family........aged 13...............and could have been anywhere between 1897 and 1911...........did it take that long for the Grandparents to acknowledge him??

So in 1911 at Union Street Melbourne..and stiil there when he joins the Army..giving that address and his net of kin his mother Elizabeth Win(g)field......

Has Frank Winfield totally rejected him//did e even know about him?.and my suggestion is now that Frank was definitley NOT the father.

Which brings us to this morning's Post



Oswald James Hatton born 27.08.1897 at Shaw Field Melbourne........Father..big black line..Mother.
ELIZABETH HATTON..Machinist in a Shoe Factory....of Shaw Field Melbourne.....Registered 06.10.1897. (So we have the right Lizzie who is a machinist on the 1911 Census)

Which more or less sews it up...........I think we'll never know the father, or the circumstances of the pregnancy.....or , sadly..what happened to Oswald in his first 14years.............Lisa..his great grand daughter, says that her grandfather (still alive) told her that Oswald had a very bad early life..........

Thanks agin for all your help and ideas..if you come up with any bolts of brilliance, I would be very happy to be astounded by them.

Derek.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

1901 - Francis Henry Winfield is a lodger with the  Searle family in Woodville. Occupation coal filler at colliery. Reference RG13, 2969, 110, 23

1891 - Bretby Road, Hartshorne, Derbyshire. All born Breedon on the HIll, except where stated

Alfred Winfield    33 - wheelwright b Castle Donington
Caroline Winfield    32 - wife b Kegworth
Francis Hy Winfield    11 - b Castle Donington. Agricultural labourer
Alfred Winfield    9
Ethel Winfield    7
Annie Winfield    6
Arthur Winfield    4
Percy Winfield    1

RG12, 2509, 95, 18

1881 - Long St, Breedon on the Hill. details match 1891

Alfred Winfield    27
Caroline Winfield    24
Francis H. Winfield    1

RG11, 3386, 132, 6

Unless we can find Oswald in 1901, we can only speculate about his early years. He clearly knew who his mother was - plenty of illegitimate children were brought up by relatives and didn't know the truth. frank would have known the history, but not all men "took on" their wife's previous children in those days.