Author Topic: Kildollagh Fishloughan Robert Cox  (Read 5095 times)

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Kildollagh Fishloughan Robert Cox
« Reply #36 on: Thursday 05 November 15 10:43 GMT (UK) »
Marriage certificates do not always indicate if father was deceased.

There is no way to positively identify a person in the census or Griffith's or to link the two resources. The best you can do is follow through other records.

Ballyrashane Presbyterian Church records are not online. Microfilmed copies are in PRONI and the Coleraine Library (former Irish Room collection).

There's lots of local information in the stickied topics on this board, Ireland and Ireland Resources board.

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Offline dunvr

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Re: Kildollagh Fishloughan Robert Cox
« Reply #37 on: Thursday 05 November 15 22:01 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the help looks like I need to hire a genealogist in Ireland to try to find more offline records

Offline dunvr

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Re: Kildollagh Fishloughan Robert Cox
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 26 December 15 21:49 GMT (UK) »
Have found more information through searching Proni

Tithe Applotment Books: Kildollagh Parish, County Derry

Cox, Moses Townland: Pullans South Year: 1834
Cox, R. Townland: Loughan Year: 1834 (Robert)
Cox, William Townland: Damhead Year: 1834

If R Cox is the Robert Cox that married Elizabeth Cochrane in 1864 then he has to be over 21 in 1834. I was told Cox is not that common a name in the Pullans / Loughan area at the time. It is thought that William Cox at Damhead is the brother of Robert. Both William and Robert seem to be born c1810-1813 and that's if they were 21 years old.

Question if we take the marriage of Robert Cox in 1864, father Moses Cox. Place an approx birth year of 1813 based on Tithe one gets an age of 51 years old for Robert Cox by the time he married in 1864. Is this possible at the time that someone marries after age 50?

Next if you search Proni freeholders list for Moses Cox he is in a freeholder document. An expert told me this would date between 1770 - 1813. Records of Moses Cox at Pullans indicate he had a cottage and farm from 1860-1863 and then from 1864 -1880. His name gets replaced by 1881 so he seems to have died around 1880. If the freeholder document was dated up to 1813 he would be over 67 when he died. Could he be a freeholder 1770-1813, a land owner 1831-34. 58. 60-80? He seems to be the whole time at Pullans.

Robert Cox has died by 1872  mentioned also earlier in this posting but his name is replaced by 1872 in Loughan land records. His father dies after him c1880 and seems to have been of age.

My thought is there is one Moses Cox the whole time through those years, he has 4 sons in the 1831 census, according to Tithe two sons have their own farms by 1834. Robert seems to have married at the advanced age of 51, could Elizabeth be a 2nd wife? If the sons of Moses are born c1810 Moses Cox would be born just prior to 1790. He became a freeholder as a young adult and farmed at Pullans his whole life till 1880, Does this fit?

Option 2 is there are two men named Moses Cox both related and two men named Robert Cox both related. Both Moses Cox's lived at Pullans whilst both Roberts were at fishloughan.

Can someone look at the freeholder list on proni that shows Moses Cox and verify that the research expert guessed the date right for c1770-1813 for the document?

Can someone give me some thought to if Robert Cox 1834 is the same man who marries in 1864 and dies in 1872 always at fishloughan?

Can someone give me their thoughts on Moses Cox as to being the same man alive in Pullans in the date range c1790 - 1880? It would have made him advanced years of 90. Not impossible I suppose but I need to get a clear opinion on this since a lot of people died in their 40s in those days however some lived to around 100 years old to.

Comments please, thanks for the help   

Offline dunvr

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Re: Kildollagh Fishloughan Robert Cox
« Reply #39 on: Saturday 26 December 15 21:57 GMT (UK) »
PS as mentioned before in this post Familysearch has a death of a Robert Cox in 1872 aged 79 registered in Coleraine. This appears to be the correct Robert Cox. Therefor born c1793, therefor his father Moses Cox born berfore 1772 this would make him 108 by 1880 seems unlikely. However the problem still being would a 50 year old man marry a woman aged around 30? Elizabeth Cochrane born around 1834 according to records.


Offline aghadowey

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Re: Kildollagh Fishloughan Robert Cox
« Reply #40 on: Sunday 27 December 15 00:00 GMT (UK) »
You are still trying to make a few bits of information fit the way you want  ::)

I was told Cox is not that common a name in the Pullans / Loughan area at the time.
Who told you this? most early records will list the name of the head of household (and some records only those who had land, etc.) but there are so many people that do not show up in surviving records so there is usually no way of saying that there were only a few families named Cox in that area and then trying to fit them into a neat little family tree. In general, the longer a family has been in one particular place the more likely is that there will be various branches, perhaps not closely connected, in that area.

Question if we take the marriage of Robert Cox in 1864, father Moses Cox. Place an approx birth year of 1813 based on Tithe one gets an age of 51 years old for Robert Cox by the time he married in 1864. Is this possible at the time that someone marries after age 50?
No way of saying how old a person listed in something like Tithes might be and if he is the same person as someone with the same name in another record.

My thought is there is one Moses Cox the whole time through those years, he has 4 sons in the 1831 census...

4 sons in 1831? 1831 census lists number of males and females in a household but does not state relationships to head of household. Thus, 5 males could be head, 2 sons, father and an older brother, etc.

Robert seems to have married at the advanced age of 51, could Elizabeth be a 2nd wife?
Does marriage certificate list his age or is this just an assumption because you are wanting him to be a certain Robert Cox? The marriage certificate will certainly list his marital status so that you will know if he was previously married. Checking the certificate is just good research and basic common sense.

Can someone give me some thought to if Robert Cox 1834 is the same man who marries in 1864 and dies in 1872 always at fishloughan?
Death certificate will list his age which will answer that question. Again, it's a matter of checking certificate. You can now view these certificates on GRONI's site so there's really no excuse for not checking them yourself.
PS as mentioned before in this post Familysearch has a death of a Robert Cox in 1872 aged 79 registered in Coleraine. This appears to be the correct Robert Cox.
Appears to be correct? have you viewed the actual certificate yet?

Can someone give me their thoughts on Moses Cox as to being the same man alive in Pullans in the date range c1790 - 1880?
I can see no death registration for a Moses Cox anywhere in Ulster that matches this. The index is easily searcheed in a variety of sites including www,familysearch.org which is free.
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Offline dunvr

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Re: Kildollagh Fishloughan Robert Cox
« Reply #41 on: Sunday 27 December 15 00:32 GMT (UK) »
Reference book general valuation of ireland, Union of Coleraine

Book A 1860-1863
Ref 1AB Moses Cox renting a dwelling house, outbuildings and land of 38 acres

Book B 1864-1880
Moses Cox lease to John Linken
Moses Cox had a cottage and land leased to John Linken

No more record after book B for Moses Cox so he appears to have died before 1881

Ref 2a Robert Cox leasing one quarter of Loughan Island referred to as late Robert Cox in 1872

I have ordered the Robert Cox 1872 death cert from GRONI but have not sited the full cert yet am hoping in will say Loughan.

What is the minimal age of a land owner in Londonderry in the 1800s?

Correct there is no death registration for a Moses Cox anywhere in Ulster I did search and found none unless he died shortly before registration in 1864?

The marriage for Robert Cox in 1864 does say bachelor. Full age. Father Moses Cox.

So there is no way of knowing if he is the same Robert Cox in 1834 and if his father Moses Cox alive 1858 in griffiths is the same man in 1831 & 1834?

Could we have two generations here of the same names in the same area?

Did you look at the freeholder document at proni showing Moses Cox? I was told by an expert in Londonderry who searched Proni it was undated but would be circa 1770 - 1813.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Kildollagh Fishloughan Robert Cox
« Reply #42 on: Sunday 27 December 15 10:46 GMT (UK) »
No more record after book B for Moses Cox so he appears to have died before 1881
Could have moved to another property/townland or left Ireland rather than died.

I have ordered the Robert Cox 1872 death cert from GRONI but have not sited the full cert yet am hoping in will say Loughan.
You said earlier you were sure this was 'your' Robert and now say you haven't even seen the certificate! You can view certificates immediately on GRONI's website once you use a few credits (costs something like £2).

The marriage for Robert Cox in 1864 does say bachelor. Full age. Father Moses Cox.
If that is the case then why did you ask if the marriage could be his 2nd?

Since I seem to be repeating myself I will stop posting on this thread now.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!