George Henry Williams, Devonport

[Liz F]

Hi,
I have a George Henry Williams who, on other records, gives his date and place of birth as being Devonport, 22 November 1876, and and on his 1916 marriage certificate gives his father's name as Frederick Charles Williams, pensioner, Royal Navy, deceased. I have been unable to find a birth record to corroborate these facts and can find no mention of him in 1881 or 1891 census records. The only Frederick Charles Williams I can find who might possibly be his father, was born 1857 in New Brompton, Chatham, Kent, enlisted in Navy in 1876, and married to Agnes Elizabeth Watson who died 1880 - so George may have been in a RN orphanage/school as this Frederick was in the navy till 1885. I cant find any further record of Frederick after he left the navy.
I have searched online through the usual BMD, Census records etc, but suggestions as to other records I could search would be appreciated.
Thanks

[Girl Guide]

What are the 'other records', what is his occupation on his marriage certificate and who are the witnesses on the marriage certificate?

Have you found George on any other census records ie 1901 and 1911?

[Liz F]

Hi, Thanks for responding. I have his war record which gives his age and place of birth, and his occupation as carpenter/joiner. He worked at the Portsmouth Dockyards and their historical trust site has employment records which give his date of birth. I think I have him living in Portsmouth as a boarder in the 1901 census, but that is the only census record which is possibly him. Witnesses on his marriage certificate were  F & ? Wimbleton but dont think they are connected. Its strange that I am having difficulty with both George and father Frederick!
Liz

[cemetery friends]

I note that freeBMD has the birth of Frederick Charles as Sept Q 1857 and the summary index TNA RN personnel as 3rd July 1855 almost certainly the same person and possibly a clerical error when he enlisted. There are a couple of Frederick Williams born c1855 in Kent on the 1861 but as I am not a subscriber to the site cannot check the full entry to confirm if any relevance. Could it be that he was born 1855 but for some unknown reason he was not registered until 1857?

[Liz F]

Thanks for that, I am still guessing as to where Frederick Charles Williams came from but think you are correct about the 1855/1857 dates referring to the same person. I have census entries in Gillingham, Kent for 1861 and 1871 for this Frederick Charles and 1881 he was aboard the HMS Lord Warden. However I'll have to keep searching till I find something more concrete that he is actually the father of George Henry.

[cemetery friends]

The mystery remains of finding a birth record of George Henry in 1876 at Devonport. The HMS Lord Warden upon recommissioning in 1876, the ship became the guardship of the First Reserve in the Firth of Forth. As Frederick Charles enlisted into the navy and his [probable] son GH was reputedly born in the same year [1876] there may have been a period when husband and wife lived in separate locations eg Scotland and England. On Wikipedia it states in her role as guardship she made visits to several ports, could this be a link to Devonport?

[Liz F]

Frederick's first posting in December 1876 was on the HMS Pembroke but where that was based I don't know. I imagine you are correct that husband and wife could well have been living in different places. His wife died in Chatham in 1880.

[cemetery friends]

HMS Pembroke was a shore ship namely the RN Barracks at Chatham, new recruits would be on that register until allocated a ship in the normal sense.

[Liz F]

Thanks for the info re HMS Pembroke. Makes me think that this Frederick is probably not my George's father, as he married in Kent in February 1876, enlisted in December 1876 and was initially based in Chatham. Trying to attach his navy record which lists all the ships he was on between 1876 and 1885