Looking for children of James Steel and Ann Hopper 1820s

[Rosinish]

I have the surname Mellon in my tree with many variants both in England & Scotland of Irish descent & the accent would probably have made the name sound different.

The baptism has Mellon but the census Milne.

I think at this stage as Annette pointed out....this James was still in Scotland 1881 although your James said he emigrated 1865 you need to try & find him on a census in US 1871 or through other means 1865 - 1881

Annie

[Prez56]

Annie,

My James appears in the 1870 US census married to my great-grandmother's sister (who died in 1875, after which he married my great-grandmother). He is listed in New York City professional directories as early as 1868, but no 1860 census. He was a salesman and storekeeper by trade, specializing in lace and women's undergarments (!) except for a brief, disastrous fling at farming in the early 1870s.

I was browsing the unindexed Durham Bishop's Transcripts, and it occurred to me that he could have been a legitimate child but the record was lost. Some pages are partially covered with little notes or are just illegible. I am going to look for other Steel family probate records when I have the time.

[Annette7]

I'm having problems re. the US side of things.    I cannot find a single thing that shows him as James Hopper Steel.  On 1870 he appears to be with wife Amilia, 1880 with wife Rose M. and in 1900 with wife Sarah M.  (latter states born Scotland??)  On all 3 census listed as James or James H. Steele.

I cannot find his death in NY records - you say he died in 1908 (nor can I find his marriages).   Can you tell us exactly what it says on his death certificate please?

Annette

[Prez56]

Annette,

For most of his life my great-grandfather was known as James H. Steele—we didn't know what the "H" stood for. In 1870 he is James H. Steel, living in Jersey City, NJ, living with his wife Elizabeth and her sister, Rose Royce. They were both born in England. Around 1872 he and Elizabeth move to a small town in Virginia. He borrows money, goes into debt, and in early 1875 Elizabeth dies (all this from later family research). Sometime after he returns to the New York area and marries Rose Emma Royce, my great-grandmother (marriage date uncertain). They have Edward Ingle Steele in 1877 and William Royce Steele in 1879. In 1880 they are living in Brooklyn, Rose "M." for Rose Emma.

On 6 May 1884 Rose gives birth prematurely to Nelson Drake Steele—she dies from complications on May 20. On May 31 Nelson also dies. On his birth certificate his father is James Hooper Steele:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FDBJ-DM7

On 12 Jul 1884 James marries Sarah Malvina Edwards, a young English woman, and they have four children between 1887 and 1899. She is his wife in the 1892 and 1905 NY censuses and the 1900 US census, living in Brooklyn. On his daughter Malvina's birth certificate he is James Hopper Steele:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WQG-Z2R

He dies in a Brooklyn hospital on 28 Mar 1908. I have a copy of the original document listing Ann Hopper and James Steel as his parents, although his estimated birth year is 1836. This is a transcription:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WFR-6HL

There are many inconsistencies with his birthdates, which range from 1826 to 1836. The Hooper/Hopper name only appeared to me recently when I dug up the birth and death certificates. His place of birth is sometimes England, sometimes Scotland. Any part of his story could be a fabrication, or at least mistaken, but he must have known a James Steel and Ann Hopper who were married, parents or not. There must be a clue in there.

Thanks for your interest!

[Rosinish]

Does anyone you know have any names of places whether England or Scotland which he could be linked to...not just "Borders" as this would make such a difference if a name place was known?

Annie

P.S. So you know that the James born to Isabella Mellon is not your James.

I am now wondering if Isabella was a relative of mine?

Annie

[Annette7]

Thanks, Prez56, for explaining so clearly.  It's always good for us to know your sources.

A real conundrum - where on earth was he on 1841/51/61 UK census (let alone the missing birth entry)?

Will keep on searching.

Annette

[trish1120]

FreeREG has James abode as Eglingham at time of Marriage.

Which may have a link to what you posted;
Thanks to all for your help with this. I had found the Steel/Hopper marriage license on FamilySearch but was not aware of the other unindexed records there. I will have a more detailed browse. I had also found there a document naming Ann Steel of Coldmartin, widow, the executrix of the estate of the late James Steel of Silburn (I think it should be Lilburn) South Stead Farm, Eglingham, in 1829.

ANN Hopper Baptised 27 March 1804, St Mary, Wooler
Birth 17 Jan 1804
Parents CHRISTOPHER/ELIZABETH nee CHISHOLM
2nd daughter. One of twin daughters.
Father native of Coldmartin in the Parish of Chatton*.
Mother the daughter of George Chisholm of this Parish, Butcher

This may also interest you;
Death of Ann, aged 67, wife of John Gordon and dtr of Christopher Hopper of
Coldmartin, near Wooler (Edition of 1 Mar 1872)
From this link below;
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/NORTHUMBRIA/2009-03/1237987948

Original query has this info;
Hi

I am hoping that someone has some information about Frederick HOPPER. In the 1841 census he is 10 years old born not in Northumberland and living with Christopher HOPPER at East Cold Martin Farm. He died between Oct and Dec 1845.

I know that Thomas STEEL who was also at Cold Martin 1841 was the Grandson of Christopher Hopper and it seems from census and other records that the Grandchildren were frequent visitors at Cold Martin Farm. I think that Frederick was the Grandson of Christopher but I do not know who he belongs to

1841 Census Christopher HOPPER is born c 1771
Thomas STELL age 14 is in the Household
HO107/833/1/Chatton

Trish

[Prez56]

I have always felt that my James was intentionally vague about his age to make himself seem older, or more likely younger, than he really was. I'm not sure if he was ever the actual informant when his census information was taken. I would not rule out an earlier marriage in the UK—he seemed to like women.

I looked through the Bishop's Transcripts in Chatton, Branxton, Branxton/Cornhill, and Wooler. I found no records for the known children of James and Ann, who were supposedly baptized in Wooler in 1824 and 1826. Is there another online source or other parish to check? The transcripts seem very reliable, but are they generally considered complete?

Annette, I do understand that the son of Isabella is not my James. Thank you for tracking that down! I amended my post right after I realized your point, but you must have read it before that.

[Rosinish]

There is also this but no mention of James Hopper Steel

http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/w/a/l/Elaine-M-Walker-Nottingham/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0184.html

I am beginning to wonder if James was actually Isaac & changed his name?

Isaac's last born child was 1865 (when James said he emigrated) but did he take his family with him? 
Maybe a search for Isaac & family in England on census & deaths would confirm that possibility or not.

Thomas' last child was born 1868

Annie