Joseph Hardy Pennock

[originQuest]

Hi there,

This below is the medal card of my great grandfather:

Name:    J H Pennock
[Joseph Pennock]
Regiment or Corps:    Royal Fusiliers, Yorkshire Regiment, Yorkshire Regiment
Regimental Number:    100003, 66998, 3/8037
Other Records:    Search for 'J H Pennock' in other WWI collections

(Taken from ancestry.com).

As you can see on the original image, he was accused of desertion in March 1917.  I'm not that aware of military records and wonder if someone can help find more information no this please?

I'm very happy to hear that he wasn't shot!

With kind regards.

[CaroleW]

It doesn't look as though his WW1 service record has survived.  Over 60% were burnt during the WW2 blitz

[originQuest]

I agree but war diaries for the regiment, newspapers?  Hopefully someone can find something.

[jim1]

Well it's all a bit confusing.
His 3/8037 number indicates he was a pre war Regular initally in the 3rd. (training) Batt. They didn't go overseas so was transferred to another Batt.
He re-enlisted 25/9/1919.
Appears on the SWB list (under his no. 66998 Yorks. Regt.) as being wounded & discharged 22/12/1919 (aged 27).
Looking at the date of his wound made me think that he may have been in Russia. The 13th. Y.R. were there as part of 237 Bde. but I can't pin him down to any specific Batt.

On the 15 Star Roll dated 16/12/1919 he's name is in red ink & no medal awarded having deserted 12/3/1917.

The other anomaly is his 6 digit R.F. no. which was given to Territorial Force soldiers late 1916-early 1917. As a Regular he should have retained his original.
I can only surmise that he was transferred to The London Regt. R.F. as they were Territorials & therefore re-issued with the 6 digit no. & deserted while with them.

[originQuest]

Very interesting and thank you for that work. Much appreciated.

Did you notice that the desertion is scribbled off the medal card? Also are you thinking that he was a soldier before WW1? The medal card notes his enlistment as 1915.

Also not sure if this helps, but a book of J H PENNOCK was returned to me back in 2007. It was a story of Talbot House in Poperinge, Belgium (TocH). J H Pennock wrote on the fly leaf:

J H Pennock, with PIP in brackets. He was a soldier in the Great War. He was in Poperinghe (near Ypres) on 1st October 1917. (So in Belgium six months after the desertion).

 He was in the late Signals H/79 Bde, RFA

Middlesbrough July 1922.

Delegate to Guildhall 16 December 1922.

Entered cllark (sic) I II III 17/18 December 1922.

Annual Dinner December 10 January 1923.

 The Book is Tales of Talbot House (1st Edition) by P B Clayton.

Does this add to the confusion? Or actually explain anything?

[jim1]

The date 20/3/15 was the qualifying date for his 15 Star. This is the day he embarked for France.
I've got him on 4 Medal Rolls & the SWB list so far & I'm trying to glean from them what I can.
I can tell you when in the R.F. he was first in the 2nd. Batt. & then the 7th. This will be under his 100003 number.
On the 1st. Oct. 1917 the 2nd. Batt. R.F. were in camp at Everinghe which is only about 5mls. from Poperinghe.
Poperinghe also had a Military Prison.
On the day of his alleged desertion the Batt. was at Airaines N.W. of Amiens.

He was in the late Signals H/79 Bde, RFA

All the info I have has him in the Infantry so where has this come from?
I noticed in the war diary that Officers & men were doing signallers courses with some Officers being on attachment to the RA.

Delegate to Guildhall 16 December 1922.

It may be this is what he's referring to:
August 8th, when it (7th. Batt. R.F.) entrained, 18 officers and
750 other ranks strong, for Falmouth. Before leaving
London 100 men, under the command of Major the Hon.
A. C. S. Chichester, had marched to the Guildhall and
handed over the battalion colours to the Lord Mayor for
safe custody.

[originQuest]

Jim this is much appreciated. Thank you dearly.

The info on J H Pennock being in Poperinge in 1917 and late Signals H/79 Bde, RFA is taken from a book about Talbot House (a respite billet in  for soldiers from the front regardless of rank). The book was found in a charity shop some years ago and was returned to me as a great grandson of J H Pennock upon the evidence of the unusual name, the RF connection and the mention of Middlesbrough ... My great grandfather's and my own town.

Does the info he inscribed on the fly leaf correspond with the info on the medal rolls etc?

PS trying to attach photo but resolution is too high.

[jim1]

Info from the Rolls:
No date: Yorks. Regt. B.W. & V medals. Roll B sheet Y/1992. (Original)
Present or at discharge no. 66998 Y.R.
Qualifying Regt. 2nd. R.F. & 7th. R.F.
Desertion 13.3.17
Discharged 23.12.19
Issue from B22 Page 2042.
All crossed out in red ink.
*******************************
23/3/21 Yorks. Regt. B.W. & V medals Roll B Sheet Y/2042
Present or at discharge no. 66998 Y.R.
Status: Discharged as per Roll B Y/1992 (the above Roll)
"X" in red ink next to the entry.
Bottom of page says "X" = previous claim deleted.
So it hasn't been crossed out because of his desertion but because this is an amended Roll.
*************************************************************************
16/12/19 14th. Batt. R.F. 15 Star Roll
Qualifying Regt. Y.R. no. S/8037 (in pencil "no medal")
Present Batt.  S.R. R.F. (Special Reserve Royal Fusiliers 7th. Batt.)
This is the interesting bit.
In brackets:
9/3/19 deserted all service forfeited 13/8/17.
It depends on how you want to read this.
Did he desert twice on 13/3/17 & 9/3/19 or was he sentenced 9/3/19 for deserting on 13/8/17 & is this supposed to read 13/3/17 & someone's got the date wrong.
************************************************************************************
23/3/21 Y.R. 15 Star Roll B? Sheet Y/64.
Qualifying Regt. R.F. no.100003
Qualifying date: 20/3/15
Current Regt or at discharge. Y.R. no. 66998
discharged: 22/12/19
I think this is wrong as he wasn't in the R.F. in 1915.
*************************************************
7/1/20 SWB list
66998 Y.R.
Enlistment date: 25/9/19
discharged: 22/12/19
Reason: wound.
*********************************************************
Looking at the other date of his alleged desertion (13/8/17) the 2nd. R.F. were just outside Poperinghe at Boesinghe & the entry says:
20 OR's were conveyed by lorry to Div. cinema & Div. concert party at International Corner.
doesn't say only 19 came back.

[Gwil]

There is a good chance that he is this J H Pennock from post 1920 service whose file should be at the MOD

11006   ADH001053644   File   D/26143   NULL   PENNOCK JH   NULL   GHOWARDS   1891-05-11


Having provided you with this info* I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to explain all the columns but...

This one's date of birth is 11 5 1891
He was with the Green Howards (i.e Yorkshire Regt)
D/26143 is in the column where many others have the 7 digit post 1920 Army renumbering number.


See this for how to apply
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records





* someone (called Justin I think) on the Great War Forum did some sterling FOI research and obtained a list of all files held on those whose birth was pre 1901.

Here are the headers
Account   ItemCode   Object   Service Number   Service Number   Name   UDF2   UDF4   Date of Birth

I'm sure if you cut and paste the whole line I provided to your application they'll zero in on his file.