Mary Hurntin married to Patrick MacCarty

[Rena]

I've just received a Cardiff registered birth certificate, dated 10 January 1840, of Daniel McCarthy born to Patrick (Maccarty) and Mary who in 1841 were living in John Street, St. Mary, Cardiff.  Patrick (30), Mary (3) and their daughter Ellen (11) were all born in Ireland.  They had two sons Patrick (3) and Daniel (1) born in Cardiff.  Unfortunately, Patrick seems to have been born prior to September 1837, thus I can't compare Mary's surname. The registrar did say that there was a Patrick but the mother's name was different.

Mary registered the birth and signed with her mark.   

My problem is that her very neatly written surname has to be incorrect.  It's HURNTIN and when I surfed I could only find one mention of it as being German with an umlaut over the "u".

I wondered if any Irish person reading this could think of an Irish dialect that could translate to a Welsh person's ear as "Hurntin".   On the other hand maybe it's a transcription error and the surname could be "Quentin".

Thanks for reading.  Any suggestions welcome.

[conahy calling]

Curtin?

[Rena]

Curtin?

Thanks for the suggestion conahy.

I've not heard of that surname before so was pleased some results came up, but currently there's no online sight of an Irish marriage between a McCarthy/McCarty to a Curtin.   

Thanks again, much appreciated.

[Maggsie]

Hi,
Hurntin, in most sites there aren't any results
The HURTIN name seems to be popular in County Waterford.
In the Tithe records there are 3 records, please see below, these are the only ones listed in Ireland.
I can't find a marriage for Mary and Patrick and I also can't find Ellen's birth record.
In the 1901 and 1911 Census of Ireland the name still appears, births were about 1860's so not yours but maybe related.
You would need to know her fathers name, but as there isn't a marriage record, it will be hard to find.
I hope this has been a help.

Maggsie

Hurtin Thos Ballyguiry Dungarvan Waterford 1829
Hurtin Pat Ballyguiry Dungarvan Waterford 1829
Hurtin Wm Ballycullane West Dungarvan Waterford 1829

[Rena]

Hi Maggsie,

Thank you.  I'm very grateful for the obvious hard work you put in trying to find sight of the surname, or something similar.

I suspect the change in surnames mostly occurred when a new dialect arrived in an area and as people couldn't read and write, the names and spellings got corrupted.

It's also been suggested to me that the surname could have been the result of both a transcription error and also dialect misunderstanding  "Hur nti n", could be "Harrington"

I'm currently searching through all the available online microfilms.  As the family settled in Cardiff, Wales I decided to start with County Cork, southern Ireland.  I started in the west and am moving eastward but haven't yet 'arrived' at the Diocese of Waterford and Lismore.    It's noticeable that the McCarthy's in the west pronounced the surname as "McCarty" without the "h", which is how Patrick's surname appears in the Cardiff 1841 census.

Fingers crossed for a bit of Irish luck when viewing the Waterford film (if there is one for the time span.

[heywood]

Hello,

You say that the registrar said there was another Patrick but mother's surname was different. Was she Mary?
I am just wondering if it could be  another interpretation of the name.

There are these two births

March 1838 
 Patrick Macarty     Cardiff vol    26 pg 297

March 1839
 Patrick McCarty        Cardiff      Vol 26. Pg 328    

Heywood

[Rena]

Hi Heywood,
How lovely for you to take the trouble to assist me.   I'll copy and paste below the email exchanges I had with the Cardiff archives.  After I received the archivist's reply (see below) I 'phoned up just to make sure I understood the email and because as I'm retired I didn't want to throw good money away when it wasn't necessary. Apparently, although I wasn't told the mother's actual name, I was given to understand that the mother's surname for Patrick McCarty was totally different.
-
My email request:-
"I am tracing an ancestor by the name of Daniel McCarthy born circa 1840 Cardiff, (died Newcastle-Upon-Tyne 1889 aged 49).  His parents had quite common names for those days , these being Patrick and Mary.  In order to ascertain Daniel’s correct blood relatives there is a chance that his older brother might have been born after the introduction of the September 1837 official birth registrations.    Thus, further to our telephone conversation today I would like to request a price for the search and supply of birth certificate for DANIEL McCARTHY/MacCARTY/McCARTY  and possibly his older sibling PATRICK if this exists..

To assist you,  I give below details shown on the Cardiff 1841 census and the records listed on the Freebmd website:-

1841 Census ref: HO 107/1425/3
Address: St Johns Street, St. Marys Parish, CARDIFF.
Parents PATRICK and MARY McCARTHY both born Ireland
PATRICK McCarthy, M, aged 3 years born in this County
DANIEL McCarthy, M, aged one year born Cardiff (as stated on later census).
-
BIRTHS March 1838:       McCARTY    Patrick  CARDIFF 26/ 297

BIRTHS December 1839: MacCARTHY Daniel   CARDIFF 26/ 312
BIRTHS March 1840:       MacCARTY    Daniel  CARDIFF  26/ 321
==
Cardiff archive response:-

Hi
We have a birth in 1840 of Daniel  McCcarty – parents Patrick and Mary – ref  OC 3 / 4  - we charge £10 per certificate

 We also have birth in 1838 of Patrick Macarty   – parents Patrick and Mary – though there is a discrepancy in the maiden name – the writing is quite bad and neither parent could read or write so it may be a transcription error it may mean they are two separate families

Best wishes

[heywood]

 
I would imagine the later birth is too late.

The trouble is the spelling of the surname and the several families of that name around Cardiff.
I quite like the idea re Harrington but I suppose whoever checked those births would have noticed any variation on the Hurntin theme.

There are Harringtons around Cardiff too but of course there are lots of Irish surnames about. 

The only other Cardiff based research I can think of is Baptism records but these will most not likely be online and possibly just archived with the diocese

[Rena]

Hi Heywood,
Thanks again for your thoughts.   Daniel has led me a merry dance for the 15 years I've been researching the family, even though my brother-in-law has the family bible (kept in the bank) that Daniel and his wife started when they married.  He's missing from the 1851 and 1861 census but I catch up with him on the 1871/1881 census noted as "Daniel".  I suspect he's been at an industrial school learning a trade under somebody else's name (!).  It wasn't until quite recently that I stopped searching a marriage for "Daniel" and just entered the bride and groom's surnames that I found him - he (or somebody) had entered on the marriage registry that the groom's name was "Dennis" with father Patrick.  Finding the Welsh marriage cert led to my finding his death cert up in Newcastle where he's noted as "Daniel or Dennis McCarthy".  Daniel only had one daughter (Catherine) and one son named James. James named his oldest son Daniel.

Thanks again, much appreciated.