James Kelly 189? 1927

[jesika jae]

I had so much information about my granddad James Kelly that I thought it would be easy.
3 WW1 medals
Pte 15846 Notts & Derby Regiment
Sgt 13010 Machine Gun Corps
Age 20 married Nellie Richardson 5 Jan 1916 Mansfield.
Age 32 died 5 Feb 1927 Hemsworth, Yorkshire.
With grateful thanks to Australian Jeff, looking for his wife's grandmother, I now know James was the first of many children born to James Kelly (of course!) 1875 Whitwick – 1951 Nottingham, and Ellen Slattery 1875 Whitwick – Rotherham 1955.
They married 8 March 1897 in Whitwick.
1901 31 March, census, the family lived at Glass Houghton, Yorkshire.
James Jr was 4 years old, born Whitwick no date.
Catherine was 3 years old born Mexborough, 10 March 1898.
Thomas is 10 months old, born Whitwick, 1900
We have been unable to find a birth registration for James Jr, despite there being a hefty £2 fine for non-compliance.

There are very strong family links to the Ashby de la Zouch area of Leicestershire: Whitwick, Osgathorpe, Hugglescote and Blackfordby.

Ellen Slattery's parents were:
Michael Slattery 1852–1893 & Emma Kendrick 1850–1929

Emma Kendrick's parents were:
Thomas  Kendrick 1829–1893 & Sarah King 1831–1901

Prominent family names are Kendrick, Slattery, King and Varnham, all with large families, many of similar ages to James Jr & Ellen.

The question remains, where (?Whitwick) when and to whom was James Kelly (189? - 1927), my grandfather born?
The dates of marriage & death are confirmed by certificates, but the ages at 1901 census, marriage & death don't correspond.

I'll be enormously grateful for any ideas which will help solve this mysterious mystery and as before, offer thanks to those who so willingly offered help in 2015.

Jesika 6 April 2016

[dawnsh]

have you worked out a more accurate date of birth from his army papers?

the ones I've looked at give the age in years and so many months and the forms have the date they enlisted.

[suzard]

Could you give further details from the marriage cert? Who were witnesses -father's name and occupation age of james

Suz

[Annette7]

His age in 1901 would indicate he was born 1896/early 1897.   

If born before his parents married 8/3/1897 his birth should be registered as Slattery.

No James Slattery born that time/area either but there was an Arthur Slattery birth reg'd June qtr.1896 Ashby de la Zouch - I can find no further trace of this Arthur apart from his birth.   Could this possibly have been your James?  Did his mother register him in the name of Arthur and James Kelly not happy with that and wanted him named after him??

Just a thought since this 'Arthur Slattery' effectively 'disappears' after the birth registration.

Annette

[iolaus]

If he were 4 at the 1901 census then he could well have been born just before his parents marriage and be registered as Slattery - couldn't see any obvious candidates

Have you found him on the 1911 census? does that give a different place of birth

[Jomot]

Given the dates of Ellen & James' marriage, Catherine's birth, and the disappearance of Arthur Slattery b 1896, I had come to the same conclusion as Annette, but she beat me to it  - especially as Ellen had a brother named Arthur Slattery.   

[jesika jae]

I was astonished to find 5 replies to my quest for granddad     James Kelly this morning. My thanks to you all.

Dawnsh, sadly Granddad's enlistment papers were among the 90% destroyed in the blitz. All I have is his medal roll entry, no help at all.
Suzard, James was 20 when he married Nellie, Jan 5 1916.
He was a miner pre-war & Pte 15846 Notts & Derby Regiment at his marriage.
Great Granddad was witness, a miner and Pte in KOYLI regiment.
Gran's sister was the other witness.
Annette7, we had considered that the stork came early, or that possibly another family member had had the baby who was “adopted” by James & Ellen because they were getting married.
The “Arthur” question: Gran's dad was Thomas Arthur and we all believed that Uncle Jim (James Arthur) was named for him. Uncle Jim's first son was James, his second Arthur!
Mother thought her dad was James Arthur, but he died when she was 2 so she had no recollection of him & Grandmother never spoke about him.
Marriage & death certificates just say “James”.
Perhaps too many coincidences to dismiss?
iolaus, the family did not feature in the 1911 census but were in Mansfield Nov 22 1911 when a daughter was born.
I had considered that they supported the Suffragette movement & declined to complete the census as many supporters did.
Jomot, the “Arthur” theory is sounding increasingly plausible.
Thank you very much for your interest and replies. I think I need to contact the Reg Office at Leicestershire to try to get a birth certificate. I'm not sure if the names of both parents would be shown if the child was an "early delivery".
Thank you again
jj (070416)

[iolaus]

I wonder if he was Arthur James (maybe adding the James at baptism) originally but always used them the other way round

I have one relative in law whose birth certificate her names are the wrong way round - born as Lily Norah, marries and dies as Norah Lily (and went by Norah - I believe all her pension etc had her as Norah - I know her telegram from the Queen and from Downing Street on her 100th birthday were addressed to her as Norah - her father's army records from when she was 5 months old have her as Norra so from a very early age she was known by her middle name and obviously switched them around

[jesika jae]

Thanks, iolaus, good idea, but marriage & death certificates just mention James, but that's not definitive, is it? Mother never said Arthur James, it was always the other way round.
I regret now that none of us ever questioned the extra surname or why grandmother didn't speak about her first husband.
But thanks to Rootschat, the mysterious mystery could be almost solved...
jj (070416)