Help needed re Swedish Ancestors Charles Oscar Sundernan

[dairydairy]

Hello everybody!

I am trying to help a friend whose ancestors possibly hailed from Sweden. Her mother did a lot of research (without computers!) before she died ten years ago and my friend would love to be able to get some answers.

My friend's great grandfather was Charles Oscar Sundernan and his marriage certificate (married 18th July 1888 at St Anne, Limehouse) said that he was 25, a Bachelor, a Mariner and that his father was Charles August Sundernan (deceased) who had been a musician. A witness to the marriage was M Ammunsen. Charles Oscar married Alice Meddemen and they were married by Licence (Charles had applied for the licence on 16th July 1888).

The 1891 census says that he was born in Sweden. The 1901 census says that he was from Fuidland (Finland??) and then says British Subject. A note in the margin says Russia. The 1911 census says that he was born in Sweden and says that he was Swedish rather than a British subject.

His surname changes and eventually the family have the name Sandeman which was my friend's mother's maiden name.

I have no idea where to go with this as none of us can speak or read Swedish! I think that this is an impossible ask - is there anyone who can help?

We would all be very grateful.

Catherine

[jamcat95]

Hi Catherine,

Hmm, this isn't easy.
Was he from Sweden or Finland? The reason I think he wrote both was that he was probably undecided. Finland at that time had many areas where Swedish speaking people lived. They probably thought themselves Swedish although living in Finland. There is an island between Sweden and Finland called Åland. It belongs to Finland but the language is Swedish.

I have found a Sundman family on the island from Saltvik Parish that seems to fit your Charles Oscar. The father is a painter (not a musician) Carl August Sundman and he died in 1875.

I have managed to follow him to Stockholm, Sweden. In 1875 he moved there with his mother and then he seems to have disappeared around 1880.

There is a record of a Merchant seaman Carl Oscar Sundman on Ancestry from 1883 being paid in London from Glasgow on the ship Queen of the Fleet. This could be him.



Carl Oscar Vladimir Sundman Birth on 19 Sept 1862: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=9262318

Karl August Sundman Death on 9 Feb 1875: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=9445439

Sundman Family 1855: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=9274363

Sundman Family 1869: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=9274662

Carl Oscar and Mother moving form Saltvik to Stockholm: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=9445681 (Nr 11 and 12 right hand side)


If you go to this site: http://digitalastadsarkivet.stockholm.se/Rotemannen2012/Search.aspx and write 1862-09-19 in Date of Birth and Sundman in Lastname you will get 2 hits for Carl Oscar. On the left hand side there is a view source to see the record. Unfortunately only the first hit works.

This does look like to be your Charles.


Ian

[jamcat95]

Hi

Any reflections?

Ian

[dairydairy]

Hello Ian
I am so sorry that it has taken me such a long time to reply. I came down with the most horrible throat virus and have felt terrible. Consequently, I have been unable to think about any genealogy stuff. However, now that I am feeling better and have had a chance to properly look at your reply (for which I thank you greatly), I really think that you could have hit the mark! The only thing that worries me is that the signature on the Wages does not look the same as that on the Marriage Licence that I have but, then again, neither looks the same as that on the 1911 census! Perhaps I should not get myself too hung up on signatures? Other than that, I think it looks very exciting. I think that there are too many coincidences for it not to be the right family.

Are you of Swedish descent? I have competencies in various languages but cannot make head nor tail of Swedish!!

I am really grateful to you for your help in this. I spoke to my friend today and she is really excited that a part of the mystery of that side of her family might have been uncovered! 

Best wishes

Catherine

[dairydairy]

By the way, Ian, if you can read Swedish - can you tell me what the registers actually say?

Catherine

[jamcat95]

Cheers Catherine.
I am not Swedish and Swedish is my second language. I'll get back to you about the registers.

Ian

[dairydairy]

Sorry to bother you again, Ian. I have just found a piece of paper written by my friend's late mother which implies that Carl Oscar had a sister called Christina who married somebody called Anderson and emigrated to America. That is the first that I have seen of this person. However, Christina was my friend's mother's name and it does appear to be a name that has carried down (Charles Oscar and Alice Meddemmen also had a daughter called Christina.

Best wishes

Catherine

[jamcat95]

The only thing that worries me is that the signature on the Wages does not look the same as that on the Marriage Licence that I have but, then again, neither looks the same as that on the 1911 census! Perhaps I should not get myself too hung up on signatures?

I actually think the 2 signatures from the marriage certificate and the wage record are the same. If you look at Oscar they look to be the same style. Even the "S" in Sundman is similar.
I don't think the name on the 1911 census is a signature.

Ian

[jamcat95]

can you tell me what the registers actually say?

Carl Oscar Vladimir Sundman Birth on 19 Sept 1862: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=9262318:
Born 19 April. Baptised 23 April. Parents from Ofvanåker - Painter C. August Sundman and wife Anna Stina Ersdotter.
Godparents: Farmer Johan Ericsson with wife Anna Lisa Carlsdotter och dotter Ann Matilda, Farmer Matts Jansson with
wife Vilhelmina Ersdotter and farmhand Carl Victor Ericsson. Baptised at Bestgården by Magnus.


Karl August Sundman Death on 9 Feb 1875: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=9445439:
Died 9 Feb and buried 21 Feb. Ofvanåker nr 9. Painter Carl August Sundman. 60 years 1 month and 18 days old. Died of tuberculosis.


Sundman Family 1855: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=9274363:
Födelse: Birth
År och Datum: Year and Date
Ort: Town

Kommen ifrån: Come from - form which book and page

Koppor: Smallpox - if vaccinated or not

Läsning: Reading
I Bok: from Book
Utur Minnet: from memory
ABC Bok:
Luth. Cat.: Martin Luther
Ilustaflan A. Symbol: Illustrations
Spörsmål: Questions
Förstår: Understanding
Vid Läsförhör Tillstädas: When examination was done

Nattvardsgång: Communion


Ian